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World politics seems to be shifting to the right in almost all the major economies. It's quite depressing (to me). Are any of the major economies moving to the

World politics seems to be shifting to the right in almost all the major economies. It's quite depressing (to me). Are any of the major economies moving to the left? Does anybody have a good understanding of why this is happening? In this instance, it doesn't appear to be fear caused by domenstic terrorism. Japan suffered domestic terrorism in the past and the response seemed far more measured then.

muninn_ 9y ago
Please keep in mind that mass surveillance has bipartisan support. It's a people vs the government issue, not left vs right.
jrs95 9y ago
The election that just happened in the UK seems to indicate that things are going the other way. Young voter turnout increased substantially, and they're way further to the left. That age gap seems to exist in the rest of Europe & the U.S. as well.
- comstock 9y ago
  The increased young voter turnout is great. But the conservatives won, and are moving further and further to the right. Corybns own party have been trying to force him out. And to be honest, the Labour Party supposed some pretty right bill legislation (the IP Bill). There maybe significant (and even growing) resistance. But it doesn't seem very effective at creating political change.
  - jrs95 9y ago
    But the right wing voters continue to die off at a pretty decent rate every year. So as long as the young actually bother to vote, I don't think it'll be very long for this trend to reverse itself. A lot of "left" parties do seem to ultimately answer to corporate interests though.
    - new299 9y ago
      It's possible. Or perhaps Corybn will be pushed out and the Labour party will take a more authoritarian stance again. And even if Labour get in, they still voted the IP Bill in. So they are pro-surveillance. So overall, I can't be convinced that "things are looking positive" from an individual liberties point of view, in the UK. Is there anywhere it's looking positive?
      - jrs95 9y ago
        Oh yeah I agree, from an individual liberties point of view, we're totally fucked...and hardly anyone seems to care because they're easily distracted by shiny things & identity politics.
    - kijin 9y ago
      At the same time, young people grow older, and people tend to become more conservative with age. Baby boomers used to smoke pot and rally for civil liberties. Then they got mortgages, kids, and cable TV. As people live longer and birth rates stay low, young people are increasingly outnumbered by old people in many parts of the developed world. I suspect that this demographic change has a lot to do with the right turn that many countries seem to be making these days.
- thrillgore 9y ago
  Trump's election has spooked rational people into action. And sadly, it's done the same to the irrational (given yesterday's shooting in DC).
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  The extreme-left (think SJW, Antifa, etc), however, is pushing a lot of people to the right as a counter-reaction. I'm not sure if/how Obama's more centrist-left policies (minus the war stuff) influenced that move though.
  - opportune 9y ago
    I wouldn't even call them the extreme-left. I'd call them the crybaby left. I consider myself more politically to the left than many SJW friend/acquaintances that I know, but I'm also not a whiner that likes to participate in the oppression olympics.
maxxxxx 9y ago
I don't think we should think of this (and probably most other things) as left or right issue. Leaning toward the left in economic issues doesn't really predict what somebody will do about terrorism. We should just phrase it as pro-surveillance or not. Not left/right or liberal/conservative.
- comstock 9y ago
  This bill is not just about surveillance. It makes the act of planning/"thinking about" a crime a crime. "Left" and "right" are context dependent terms. But in this context I mean left as favoring individual freedom.
  - 8373zjsi 9y ago
    Your definition of "left" is yours and yours alone. Neither the left nor the right has a monopoly on individual freedom.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Then call it that way. For example I wouldn't call libertarians left wing but they would be on your side regarding surveillance. But they wouldn't be on your side about environmental regulations for example.
- eeZah7Ux 9y ago
  Most of the world is moving very fast towards the authoritarian side - the vertical dimension on the political compass. Yet, it's also true that many countries are moving far to the right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass
  - new299 9y ago
    Interesting, thanks. Has anyone suggested a theory as to why this might be happening?
    - 9y ago
mc32 9y ago
As others said, it's not a left vs right thing. Traditionally it would have been more of a left thing, but now there is no correlation. As to why in general a move to sovereignty it's a long delayed reaction to neoliberal economics and globalization as we have reached what might colloquially be called peak globalism as people (working class) see it as a net negative on their lives.
kijin 9y ago
Right next door to Japan, South Korea just impeached a right-wing President and elected a left-wing guy instead. The new President has vowed to strip domestic surveillance powers from NIS (national intelligence service), the Korean counterpart to CIA. Last year, members of three opposition parties collectively filibustered an anti-terrorism bill (granting more domestic surveillance powers to NIS) for 192 hours and 27 minutes, setting a world record by a wide margin. Although the ruling party eventually forced the bill through, the media spotlight on the filibuster helped the opposition grab a lot more seats in the general election shortly afterward. The impeachment ten months later could not have happened without the new balance of power caused by that filibuster. I don't think surveillance has ever been such a consequential issue in the mainstream politics of any other country so far. So if anyone is in a mood to try a bit less surveillance on its own people, I think South Korea just might be.
rukittenme 9y ago
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its symptomatic of the opposition party. Looking at the history of left wing governments (such as China and the Soviet Union), I'd say this is a swing to the left.
- kijin 9y ago
  Plenty of right wingers have been on your wrong side as well: Mussolini, Pinochet, Marcos... This isn't about left and right, it's a power grab. Any leader of any political party can fall to the temptation of a power grab regardless of their professed ideology.
TorKlingberg 9y ago
There has been a wave of populist right in the west, but it seems to be ending (see recent France, UK elections). Japan has not been affected much. They have their far right, but it's not growing. Japanese politics has been conservative and controlled by large business interests for decades, and I see this as just an other part of that. There is a left in Japan, but they focus more issues like the military, not copyright and state surveillance.
pmoriarty 9y ago
"Are any of the major economies moving to the left?" The recent UK election is a bit hopeful in this regard. The Conservatives weren't beaten outright by Labour, but performed so poorly that one of the architects of their campaign "suggested the party changed its name to the Workers Party or Conservative Workers Party ... He told BBC Newsnight "And I think that we have to actually build our policies based on five pillars - we should be a real modern trade union movement for the British people - five pillars of workers' rights, workers' jobs and skills, workers' wages, workers' welfare and workers' services." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40277395 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40277395

muninn_ 9y ago

Please keep in mind that mass surveillance has bipartisan support. It's a people vs the government issue, not left vs right.

jrs95 9y ago

The election that just happened in the UK seems to indicate that things are going the other way. Young voter turnout increased substantially, and they're way further to the left. That age gap seems to exist in the rest of Europe & the U.S. as well.

comstock 9y ago
The increased young voter turnout is great. But the conservatives won, and are moving further and further to the right. Corybns own party have been trying to force him out. And to be honest, the Labour Party supposed some pretty right bill legislation (the IP Bill). There maybe significant (and even growing) resistance. But it doesn't seem very effective at creating political change.
- jrs95 9y ago
  But the right wing voters continue to die off at a pretty decent rate every year. So as long as the young actually bother to vote, I don't think it'll be very long for this trend to reverse itself. A lot of "left" parties do seem to ultimately answer to corporate interests though.
  - new299 9y ago
    It's possible. Or perhaps Corybn will be pushed out and the Labour party will take a more authoritarian stance again. And even if Labour get in, they still voted the IP Bill in. So they are pro-surveillance. So overall, I can't be convinced that "things are looking positive" from an individual liberties point of view, in the UK. Is there anywhere it's looking positive?
    - jrs95 9y ago
      Oh yeah I agree, from an individual liberties point of view, we're totally fucked...and hardly anyone seems to care because they're easily distracted by shiny things & identity politics.
  - kijin 9y ago
    At the same time, young people grow older, and people tend to become more conservative with age. Baby boomers used to smoke pot and rally for civil liberties. Then they got mortgages, kids, and cable TV. As people live longer and birth rates stay low, young people are increasingly outnumbered by old people in many parts of the developed world. I suspect that this demographic change has a lot to do with the right turn that many countries seem to be making these days.
thrillgore 9y ago
Trump's election has spooked rational people into action. And sadly, it's done the same to the irrational (given yesterday's shooting in DC).
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
The extreme-left (think SJW, Antifa, etc), however, is pushing a lot of people to the right as a counter-reaction. I'm not sure if/how Obama's more centrist-left policies (minus the war stuff) influenced that move though.
- opportune 9y ago
  I wouldn't even call them the extreme-left. I'd call them the crybaby left. I consider myself more politically to the left than many SJW friend/acquaintances that I know, but I'm also not a whiner that likes to participate in the oppression olympics.

maxxxxx 9y ago

I don't think we should think of this (and probably most other things) as left or right issue. Leaning toward the left in economic issues doesn't really predict what somebody will do about terrorism. We should just phrase it as pro-surveillance or not. Not left/right or liberal/conservative.

comstock 9y ago
This bill is not just about surveillance. It makes the act of planning/"thinking about" a crime a crime. "Left" and "right" are context dependent terms. But in this context I mean left as favoring individual freedom.
- 8373zjsi 9y ago
  Your definition of "left" is yours and yours alone. Neither the left nor the right has a monopoly on individual freedom.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Then call it that way. For example I wouldn't call libertarians left wing but they would be on your side regarding surveillance. But they wouldn't be on your side about environmental regulations for example.
eeZah7Ux 9y ago
Most of the world is moving very fast towards the authoritarian side - the vertical dimension on the political compass. Yet, it's also true that many countries are moving far to the right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass
- new299 9y ago
  Interesting, thanks. Has anyone suggested a theory as to why this might be happening?
  - 9y ago

mc32 9y ago

As others said, it's not a left vs right thing. Traditionally it would have been more of a left thing, but now there is no correlation. As to why in general a move to sovereignty it's a long delayed reaction to neoliberal economics and globalization as we have reached what might colloquially be called peak globalism as people (working class) see it as a net negative on their lives.

kijin 9y ago

Right next door to Japan, South Korea just impeached a right-wing President and elected a left-wing guy instead. The new President has vowed to strip domestic surveillance powers from NIS (national intelligence service), the Korean counterpart to CIA. Last year, members of three opposition parties collectively filibustered an anti-terrorism bill (granting more domestic surveillance powers to NIS) for 192 hours and 27 minutes, setting a world record by a wide margin. Although the ruling party eventually forced the bill through, the media spotlight on the filibuster helped the opposition grab a lot more seats in the general election shortly afterward. The impeachment ten months later could not have happened without the new balance of power caused by that filibuster. I don't think surveillance has ever been such a consequential issue in the mainstream politics of any other country so far. So if anyone is in a mood to try a bit less surveillance on its own people, I think South Korea just might be.

rukittenme 9y ago

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its symptomatic of the opposition party. Looking at the history of left wing governments (such as China and the Soviet Union), I'd say this is a swing to the left.

kijin 9y ago
Plenty of right wingers have been on your wrong side as well: Mussolini, Pinochet, Marcos... This isn't about left and right, it's a power grab. Any leader of any political party can fall to the temptation of a power grab regardless of their professed ideology.

TorKlingberg 9y ago

There has been a wave of populist right in the west, but it seems to be ending (see recent France, UK elections). Japan has not been affected much. They have their far right, but it's not growing. Japanese politics has been conservative and controlled by large business interests for decades, and I see this as just an other part of that. There is a left in Japan, but they focus more issues like the military, not copyright and state surveillance.

pmoriarty 9y ago

"Are any of the major economies moving to the left?" The recent UK election is a bit hopeful in this regard. The Conservatives weren't beaten outright by Labour, but performed so poorly that one of the architects of their campaign "suggested the party changed its name to the Workers Party or Conservative Workers Party ... He told BBC Newsnight "And I think that we have to actually build our policies based on five pillars - we should be a real modern trade union movement for the British people - five pillars of workers' rights, workers' jobs and skills, workers' wages, workers' welfare and workers' services." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40277395 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40277395