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Granted this is a very narrow view into the files, but they seem awfully concerned about the gay stuff. Was gay propaganda really that big of a concern for the

by werber 9y ago

Granted this is a very narrow view into the files, but they seem awfully concerned about the gay stuff. Was gay propaganda really that big of a concern for the FBI back then?

1dundundun 9y ago
FBI head Hoover was a closeted gay man. That probably played a part.
pjc50 9y ago
It was certainly something they could use against people. This wasn't so long after a previous massive witch-hunt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare (I can't parse "gay propaganda" without interpreting it as massively homophobic, care to elaborate?)
- werber 9y ago
  I meant that with no negative connotation. James Baldwin is my favorite author, and his contributions to queer american life are something I truly treasure. Empowerment would have been a better choice of word than propaganda.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  I wish more people would understand this. The reason they are homophobic is because making a normal activity immoral gives them something they can use to defame people. Similarly, the reason they are racist because having a frightening other makes it easier to control the populace. You need a bad part of town to keep prices up in the good part. These underlying racist/classist/sexist/homophobic motives then reach around acausally and individuals think we are in a post-racist or post-sexist society, that black people commit crime, or that Jews run the world, or whatever. The system reinforces itself because it needs to in order to survive. Rational basis for both the -isms and the denial of their power forms out of nothing to serve the end goal of GDP growth and consolidation of wealth in the capital class. It also provides a cultural grounding for policing "good whites" and "bad whites". You can't use merit, because then the rewards are too predictable and people won't get addicted to them. When you ground badness in a neighbor culture, it means people who are part way between cultures (i.e. all of us) never really know exactly when the rewards are going to come, so they become addictive. Only people at the extremes know when the rewards are coming: rich whites (always), poor blacks (never). Both groups use that freedom from political addiction to control culture. Whites architecturally, blacks artistically. Wall Street and Hip Hop. That's also why you see black culture bifurcated with some moving "towards the bottom" and some "towards the top". There is a power source in both directions, in thug life and in assimilation. Of course this also provides free propaganda for racists... "look how they move towards badness"...
  - HumbleGamer 9y ago
    First time upvoting anything on here. Well written.

by werber 9y ago

Granted this is a very narrow view into the files, but they seem awfully concerned about the gay stuff. Was gay propaganda really that big of a concern for the FBI back then?

1dundundun 9y ago

FBI head Hoover was a closeted gay man. That probably played a part.

pjc50 9y ago

It was certainly something they could use against people. This wasn't so long after a previous massive witch-hunt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare (I can't parse "gay propaganda" without interpreting it as massively homophobic, care to elaborate?)

werber 9y ago
I meant that with no negative connotation. James Baldwin is my favorite author, and his contributions to queer american life are something I truly treasure. Empowerment would have been a better choice of word than propaganda.
erikpukinskis 9y ago
I wish more people would understand this. The reason they are homophobic is because making a normal activity immoral gives them something they can use to defame people. Similarly, the reason they are racist because having a frightening other makes it easier to control the populace. You need a bad part of town to keep prices up in the good part. These underlying racist/classist/sexist/homophobic motives then reach around acausally and individuals think we are in a post-racist or post-sexist society, that black people commit crime, or that Jews run the world, or whatever. The system reinforces itself because it needs to in order to survive. Rational basis for both the -isms and the denial of their power forms out of nothing to serve the end goal of GDP growth and consolidation of wealth in the capital class. It also provides a cultural grounding for policing "good whites" and "bad whites". You can't use merit, because then the rewards are too predictable and people won't get addicted to them. When you ground badness in a neighbor culture, it means people who are part way between cultures (i.e. all of us) never really know exactly when the rewards are going to come, so they become addictive. Only people at the extremes know when the rewards are coming: rich whites (always), poor blacks (never). Both groups use that freedom from political addiction to control culture. Whites architecturally, blacks artistically. Wall Street and Hip Hop. That's also why you see black culture bifurcated with some moving "towards the bottom" and some "towards the top". There is a power source in both directions, in thug life and in assimilation. Of course this also provides free propaganda for racists... "look how they move towards badness"...
- HumbleGamer 9y ago
  First time upvoting anything on here. Well written.