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Unions are just another source of abuse for workers. Their leaders often make much more than those they represent. You have to pay the dues, even when you kno

Unions are just another source of abuse for workers. Their leaders often make much more than those they represent. You have to pay the dues, even when you know the union is going to waste the money on this type of largess, as well as on politicians you don't agree with and who you know aren't going to help you anyway. Got talent? It doesn't matter. In union jobs, it's the politically connected and those who have been in the union the longest that will get the job.

zanny 9y ago
Unions are organizations like any other. You can structure it on merit or on politics, and you can't blanket all unions as acting the same way. Most have awful charters meant to just enfranchise the established old guard at the expense of new blood, but they don't have to do it that way. It is also a bit funny to demonize unions in a conversation about a company that uses its own largess to ruin the lives of former employees.
- kenoh 9y ago
  I have to agree with you on the the humor of that. It's the original "But her emails".
- tomohawk 9y ago
  Perhaps you could point me to some unions that operate in this egalitarian way. I haven't seen them. As a thought experiment, just how would a union decide to protect or not protect a worker in a certain situation? By adherence to union rules? These are often inflexible, counterproductive, and morale destroying. Have you ever worked in a shop where you were not allowed to plug or unplug an appliance because thats a job for the electricians union? I have. It took several weeks to install a copier because of the unions involved. The movers couldn't unplug the thing, so they left when they saw it was plugged in. That company is no longer in business. What happened to the workers? Perhaps the workers could be protected by always siding with the worker, even when the worker is not good at what they do or is abusive? Sounds like some police unions.
- lightedman 9y ago
  "and you can't blanket all unions as acting the same way." Every single Union I've seen forces you to give up YOUR RIGHTS. I've read the paperwork.
  - lightedman 9y ago
    I see the pro-union people are out in force. I suggest you go read UPS, FedEx, and Kroger's Union stuff. What I say is true because I've been to court over it. You sign up, YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO REPRESENT YOURSELF IN ALL LEGAL MATTERS. It's explicitly written like that.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
eeZah7Ux 9y ago
Unions did wonders to drag the workforce out of slavery-like conditions. You are confusing the real thing with the modern, corrupted and nepotist, organizations.
- tomohawk 9y ago
  Sounds like unions were yesterday's solution. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, it seems like we should be able to do better.
  - jahaja 9y ago
    It's bordering delusional to me to argue that unions are obsolete with all the "sharing-economy" dystopia and more being spouted about. Especially in the case of the US that never really had a continuously strong labor movement, which is clearly reflected in its laws and regulations.
    - giobox 9y ago
      Exactly - especially when so many "sharing economy" style jobs exploit defining workers as independent self-employed contractors instead of employees, a critical distinction to avoid paying for benefits that employees are often legally entitled to. This is why Uber spend so much money fighting cases about the classification of their drivers work status in virtually every country they operate in. Most western countries have laws designed to prevent companies exploiting employees by reclassifying them as contractors, especially for low paying or low skilled jobs. The recent Uber employment case in the U.K. Is a great example, and is precisely the kind of problem unions were historically good at dealing with. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...
      - jahaja 9y ago
        Indeed. Another example, that may hit closer to home for the readers of this site, would be the idea of the "inherent" need for unpaid overtime which must not be labeled systematic, but is just coincidentally repeating. "But IT has unique demands requiring it!". That the same trick is used from literal sweatshops and up must therefor also be a coincidence.

zanny 9y ago

Unions are organizations like any other. You can structure it on merit or on politics, and you can't blanket all unions as acting the same way. Most have awful charters meant to just enfranchise the established old guard at the expense of new blood, but they don't have to do it that way. It is also a bit funny to demonize unions in a conversation about a company that uses its own largess to ruin the lives of former employees.

kenoh 9y ago
I have to agree with you on the the humor of that. It's the original "But her emails".
tomohawk 9y ago
Perhaps you could point me to some unions that operate in this egalitarian way. I haven't seen them. As a thought experiment, just how would a union decide to protect or not protect a worker in a certain situation? By adherence to union rules? These are often inflexible, counterproductive, and morale destroying. Have you ever worked in a shop where you were not allowed to plug or unplug an appliance because thats a job for the electricians union? I have. It took several weeks to install a copier because of the unions involved. The movers couldn't unplug the thing, so they left when they saw it was plugged in. That company is no longer in business. What happened to the workers? Perhaps the workers could be protected by always siding with the worker, even when the worker is not good at what they do or is abusive? Sounds like some police unions.
lightedman 9y ago
"and you can't blanket all unions as acting the same way." Every single Union I've seen forces you to give up YOUR RIGHTS. I've read the paperwork.
- lightedman 9y ago
  I see the pro-union people are out in force. I suggest you go read UPS, FedEx, and Kroger's Union stuff. What I say is true because I've been to court over it. You sign up, YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO REPRESENT YOURSELF IN ALL LEGAL MATTERS. It's explicitly written like that.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

eeZah7Ux 9y ago

Unions did wonders to drag the workforce out of slavery-like conditions. You are confusing the real thing with the modern, corrupted and nepotist, organizations.

tomohawk 9y ago
Sounds like unions were yesterday's solution. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, it seems like we should be able to do better.
- jahaja 9y ago
  It's bordering delusional to me to argue that unions are obsolete with all the "sharing-economy" dystopia and more being spouted about. Especially in the case of the US that never really had a continuously strong labor movement, which is clearly reflected in its laws and regulations.
  - giobox 9y ago
    Exactly - especially when so many "sharing economy" style jobs exploit defining workers as independent self-employed contractors instead of employees, a critical distinction to avoid paying for benefits that employees are often legally entitled to. This is why Uber spend so much money fighting cases about the classification of their drivers work status in virtually every country they operate in. Most western countries have laws designed to prevent companies exploiting employees by reclassifying them as contractors, especially for low paying or low skilled jobs. The recent Uber employment case in the U.K. Is a great example, and is precisely the kind of problem unions were historically good at dealing with. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...
    - jahaja 9y ago
      Indeed. Another example, that may hit closer to home for the readers of this site, would be the idea of the "inherent" need for unpaid overtime which must not be labeled systematic, but is just coincidentally repeating. "But IT has unique demands requiring it!". That the same trick is used from literal sweatshops and up must therefor also be a coincidence.