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Having worked in the Open Hardware community for a while, I think the most important part is: PDFs are not considered design files https://www.oshwa.org/defini

Having worked in the Open Hardware community for a while, I think the most important part is: PDFs are not considered design files https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ If you apply this rule, you can exclude 90% of the "Open Source/Hardware" products on the market. Also 99% are missing a BOM (Bill Of Materials). That's like shipping an open source software without the config files, forcing the users to figure out the settings by reading the sources. Unless they are buying the pre-compiled binaries from the author.

vog 9y ago
> PDFs are not considered design files https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ This is a very good point! BTW, in that sense most Creative Commons work is not "open source", either. For example, a typical Creative Commons video that is just released as webm or mp4 can only be remixed, but not improved upon - which would require access to the raw video material, raw audio material and the project file of the used video cut program. Same for CC music distributes just as mp3/flac/opus, you'll need the samples, notes, music cut program file, and so on. One notable exception are tracker files (mod, s3m, it, ...), and in some sense also the MIDI files (as long as you have access to all instruments).
- jononor 9y ago
  The definition from OSHWA is tailored for hardware. OSI has the authorative for software. But yeah, music and graphics frequently also don't include the actual 'source' - just a rendered output. This is way better that having a propiatary license on the output, but does not fulfill the full potential. Some of it has to so with the tools and proceses, which frequently aren't really built to make collaborating on the source materials easy. And often the formats and tools used are proprietary. Freeware VSTs abound for instance...
  - iuguy 9y ago
    Perhaps a key difference is that OSHWA isn't authoritative. OSHWA are the FSF of hardware. As far as they're concerned, only their certification constitutes open hardware. Everyone else is wrong. Sound familiar? As someone else pointed out, a lot of people don't provide BOM files, including people who have OSHWA certified hardware.
- jononor 9y ago
  I'm glad for this inclusion, will reference it in the future. My pet peeve is people releasing only STLs of 3d-printed parts or DXF for lasercut/CNC, with no project files. Unlike music, these are 'functional' works which I may need to adapt to be suitable for use. Many times it is doable to recreate the project in my CAD software, but this does not scale.
  - TaylorAlexander 9y ago
    Only releasing STLs is rough!
- d33 9y ago
  It's worth noting that there are exceptions though: https://www.blender.org/features/projects/ https://www.blender.org/features/projects/
agumonkey 9y ago
PDF lose too much information to be used as CAD input ?
- grenoire 9y ago
  Simply doesn't include enough data at the necessary format/units. PDFs are for printing and reading, not building.
- dbcurtis 9y ago
  Try to compile gcc from a gif of a screenshot and see how far you get.
  - tzakrajs 9y ago
    Which ML training set data should I use to infer new applications from screenshots?
    - dbcurtis 9y ago
      hmmm... MNIST will get you digits... You jest, but actually, it might be an interesting problem to try to recreate program source from OCR'ed images. Using surrounding context, and then analyzing program flow, it might be possible to correct the inevitable transcription errors. The problem is just constrained enough to be interesting research.
      - kingbirdy 9y ago
        OCR is good enough nowadays I cant see it having an issue with code screenshots - it's generally unstyled except for color, and in a fixed-width font.
- iuguy 9y ago
  For simple circuits it's fairly straightforward to recreate in a CAD tool. The minute you get more than dual layer, things get hairy in a PDF. Also you can't really send PDFs to fabs to get boards built, as they miss info that you need in order to make a PCB.

vog 9y ago

> PDFs are not considered design files https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ https://www.oshwa.org/definition/ This is a very good point! BTW, in that sense most Creative Commons work is not "open source", either. For example, a typical Creative Commons video that is just released as webm or mp4 can only be remixed, but not improved upon - which would require access to the raw video material, raw audio material and the project file of the used video cut program. Same for CC music distributes just as mp3/flac/opus, you'll need the samples, notes, music cut program file, and so on. One notable exception are tracker files (mod, s3m, it, ...), and in some sense also the MIDI files (as long as you have access to all instruments).

jononor 9y ago
The definition from OSHWA is tailored for hardware. OSI has the authorative for software. But yeah, music and graphics frequently also don't include the actual 'source' - just a rendered output. This is way better that having a propiatary license on the output, but does not fulfill the full potential. Some of it has to so with the tools and proceses, which frequently aren't really built to make collaborating on the source materials easy. And often the formats and tools used are proprietary. Freeware VSTs abound for instance...
- iuguy 9y ago
  Perhaps a key difference is that OSHWA isn't authoritative. OSHWA are the FSF of hardware. As far as they're concerned, only their certification constitutes open hardware. Everyone else is wrong. Sound familiar? As someone else pointed out, a lot of people don't provide BOM files, including people who have OSHWA certified hardware.
jononor 9y ago
I'm glad for this inclusion, will reference it in the future. My pet peeve is people releasing only STLs of 3d-printed parts or DXF for lasercut/CNC, with no project files. Unlike music, these are 'functional' works which I may need to adapt to be suitable for use. Many times it is doable to recreate the project in my CAD software, but this does not scale.
- TaylorAlexander 9y ago
  Only releasing STLs is rough!
d33 9y ago
It's worth noting that there are exceptions though: https://www.blender.org/features/projects/ https://www.blender.org/features/projects/

agumonkey 9y ago

PDF lose too much information to be used as CAD input ?

grenoire 9y ago
Simply doesn't include enough data at the necessary format/units. PDFs are for printing and reading, not building.
dbcurtis 9y ago
Try to compile gcc from a gif of a screenshot and see how far you get.
- tzakrajs 9y ago
  Which ML training set data should I use to infer new applications from screenshots?
  - dbcurtis 9y ago
    hmmm... MNIST will get you digits... You jest, but actually, it might be an interesting problem to try to recreate program source from OCR'ed images. Using surrounding context, and then analyzing program flow, it might be possible to correct the inevitable transcription errors. The problem is just constrained enough to be interesting research.
    - kingbirdy 9y ago
      OCR is good enough nowadays I cant see it having an issue with code screenshots - it's generally unstyled except for color, and in a fixed-width font.
iuguy 9y ago
For simple circuits it's fairly straightforward to recreate in a CAD tool. The minute you get more than dual layer, things get hairy in a PDF. Also you can't really send PDFs to fabs to get boards built, as they miss info that you need in order to make a PCB.