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Bullshit. That requires brain capacities birds does not possess. These calls are random variations learned from experience (by mimicking other birds). With eno
by lngnmn 9y ago
Bullshit. That requires brain capacities birds does not possess. These calls are random variations learned from experience (by mimicking other birds).
With enough of machine learning I could publish that trees have a sign-language.
- 36bydesign 9y agoHow are you so sure what a bird’s brain is capable of? And fwiw trees and plants do have chemical means of communication.
- kleer001 9y agoYou, my friend, need to do a little more comparative neurology research and keep up to date with findings in brain science.
- lngnmn 9y agoI would stay with MIT linguists, if you would permit me. No animal signal system has a regular structure and no animal has a brain capacity for producing an arbitrary sequence of phonemes. Only mimicking capabilities. Thank you.
- tudorw 9y agoyou've met all the animals ?
- lngnmn 9y agoI've met a few good books.
- tudorw 9y agoThen you should know better than to make sweeping generalisations and talking in absolutes, I can show you many scientific books from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's that are filled with untrue assumptions, to state that no animal is capable of language when we still no so little about 'brain capacity' seems, premature.
- lngnmn 9y agoLinguistics, second edition by MIT Press is enough. Knowledge of fundamental principles spares one from memorizing all the details. A distinct area of the brain (which birds does not evolved yet) and related corpus collosum linkage are required for even basic language capabilities. There is a huge gap between mimicking and deliberately producing arbitrary sequences according to the rules. It is a qualitative difference, not merely quantitive. Only humans have managed to cross this gap. All the legitimate, rigorous studies of animal communication systems only prove this principle. The classic studies of actual brain injuries in humans which form the foundation of the field of cognitive neuroscience stand up in support of my position.
- tudorw 9y agoThanks, you're right, I found this 'Doctor Dolittle’s Delusion: Animals and the Uniqueness of Language' and certainly scientific research supports this and i'd support that, I guess I am tripping up on semantics, language and communication are not mutually exclusive, so animals can communicate, this is clear, the argument is they cannot create the mental constructs that gives language its utility, is that agreeable ?
- tudorw 9y agoAnimal language studies: What happened? https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13423-016-1101-y https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13423-016-1101-y
- lngnmn 9y agoExactly. Babies (before language acquisition) are communicating in the same way - only expressing emotions with cries and other forms of non-verbal communication.
- kleer001 9y agoPrairie dog language decoded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kXCh496U0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kXCh496U0 And crows can transmit similar information, such as the description of humans they've never seen. All forms of anthropomorphism are poisonous dead ends.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago> No animal signal system has a regular structure and no animal has a brain capacity for producing an arbitrary sequence of phonemes. Are you absolutely, one hundred percent, positive about that? No animal?
- lngnmn 9y agoRead about how much time and resources has been spent on monkeys and dolphins and what the findings are. Hint: no regular structure. Emotional signals and stress calls only.
- kleer001 9y agoHere's prairie dog language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kXCh496U0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kXCh496U0
- DrScump 9y agoCorvids alone refute you.
- lngnmn 9y agoLike in music, temper, volume and pitch could be varied, nevertheless bird calls has no regular structure similar to what a language has. Let's not even start about language capabilities in birds.