5 ms·

I've said it before here, and I'll say it every time it's relevant: Stop using Facebook. Start telling your friends and family to do the same. As the "smart

by bbarn 9y ago

I've said it before here, and I'll say it every time it's relevant: Stop using Facebook. Start telling your friends and family to do the same. As the "smart computer person" in many people's lives, you can be the voice they need to hear.

duncan_bayne 9y ago
I'm busy shutting down a throwaway FB account that I used to sign up to Spotify back in the day. They don't make it easy. The process, according to Spotify support, is: + Create a new Spotify account + Contact Spotify support to migrate playlists etc. across. + Cancel my paid subscription on the old account. + Create a new paid subscription on the new account. + Migrate my family members onto the new account. This is reminiscent of Microsoft's strategies back in the 90s, to make it incredibly difficult to ship a PC w/o DOS (and later, Windows).
- jbigelow76 9y ago
  Was there a time, and if so was this throwaway FB account part of it, when you could only sign up to Spotify with a FB account? I was a paying member of Spotify for about two years and my account wasn't tied to FB but Spotify had already been around for a few years prior.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - duncan_bayne 9y ago
    I'm unsure - I think there was, based on forum chatter. Certainly if there was another way to sign up when I did, I was unaware of it.
  - intoverflow2 9y ago
    > Was there a time, and if so was this throwaway FB account part of it, when you could only sign up to Spotify with a FB account? Yes from the early beta Spotify had it's own account system, then it switched to all new accounts must be FB but legacy accounts could still sign in. This was a while ago though around the time I stopped using it.
austenallred 9y ago
What rationale could I possibly give someone to stop using Facebook that would convince them to forgo all of the value they get from it?
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  There's obvious abstract reasons why they should stop using it: 1. Facebook knows about all of your interactions on Facebook, and they probably know what you are buying and what sites you visit through tracking mechanisms. In real life we call those people stalkers. 2. What utility are they really getting? Is keeping up with every part of your friend's life (or the good parts they show you) really worth the stress and anxiety of feeling like you are missing out? It's fake utility. People somehow existed for something like 300,000 years without this utility, so what value is really there? That being said, it's designed to get people addicted and the immediate "utility" is a lot stronger than any abstract worries, so there's probably nothing you can say.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    > Facebook knows about all of your interactions on Facebook, and they probably know what you are buying and what sites you visit through tracking mechanisms. So what? I mean that earnestly - why is it inherently bad if a company knows a lot about me? > What utility are they really getting? It's fake utility. Do you really believe that easily keeping up with friends is "fake" utility? You really think that billions of people log on to a website every day that provides no "real" utility? > People somehow existed for something like 300,000 years without this utility, so what value is really there? People existed for a long time without the the lightbulb, automobiles, the wheel, computers, etc. You're basically arguing that there can't be any utility in anything new.
    - rlucas 9y ago
      42% of the US population smoked daily. You really think that a hundred million people lit up daily with no "real" utility?
laurieg 9y ago
I would like to stop, but the devil is in the details. Facebook is used for many social and business events. I get a lot of work via contacts that come through facebook. Withought it I'm certain I would miss out on some of these. I'd also miss out on keeping up with family abroad. Do you have any suggestions?
- bbarn 9y ago
  4 years later, and I have missed out on invitations to a few parties I probably didn't want to go to, and one that comes to mind that I did want to go to, but found out about with enough time anyway. I honestly believe they've done a fantastic job convincing you it's more important to you than it is. It sounds like from your examples you're the perfect case for lock-in they are after. It's penetrated your business and family life so much you're afraid to leave it. That bothered me when I started to feel like that, which is why I left. Since then so many other things have happened (there's a link-fest from another commenter on this thread that I won't bother to compete with - thanks) that I'm pretty good with accepting that I might have missed out on a few things as a result.
laurieg 9y ago
I would like to stop, but the devil is in the details. Facebook is used for many social and business events. I get a lot of work via contacts that come through facebook. Withought it I'm certain I would miss out on some of these. I'd also miss out on keeping up with family abroad. Do you have any suggestions?
onewaystreet 9y ago
> I've said it before here, and I'll say it every time it's relevant What makes this one of those times?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  OP might have meant when Facebook exhibits another attribute closely resembling a skinner box [1]. Or the use of their platform as a world scale behavioral analysis experiment. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber "An operant conditioning chamber permits experimenters to study behavior conditioning (training) by teaching a subject animal to perform certain actions (like pressing a lever) in response to specific stimuli, such as a light or sound signal. When the subject correctly performs the behavior, the chamber mechanism delivers food or another reward. In some cases, the mechanism delivers a punishment for incorrect or missing responses." https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/4/10708590/facebook-google-android-app-crash-tests https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/4/10708590/facebook-google-a... "Facebook made its Android app crash to test your loyalty" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-activates-same-part-of-the-brain-as-cocaine.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-... "Facebook addiction ‘activates same part of the brain as cocaine’" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886911005332 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886911... "Narcissism on Facebook: Self-promotional and anti-social behavior" https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/#1d500b85197c https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook... "Facebook Manipulated 689,003 Users' Emotions For Science" https://twitter.com/niftyc/status/482925976251154432 https://twitter.com/niftyc/status/482925976251154432 "#facebook emotional contagion study effect sizes are small--probably nobody was driven to suicide. #jokingnotjoking http://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788.full http://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788.full …"
psyc 9y ago
I don't know which is more disturbing: that Facebook, by including this feature, seems to presume itself a ubiquitous public utility, or that it could actually become one.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
For all its flaws, there's nothing that can actually replace the functions of Facebook, especially if you have a lot of friends and family all over the world. It's a centralised platform where I can message almost everyone I know, and put people in group chats. It's also very useful to be able to tell at a glance where people are, and get updates as to what people are doing or where they are going, and also to be able let other people know where I am or what I am doing. It does have its fair share of issues, like too many posts from pages showing up, or people tagging other people in posts showing up. It also has its ethical issues, but for me they are outweighed by the power and convenience of the platform.
djhworld 9y ago
Just use it occasionally then. I deleted my account and was "clean" for a few years, but last year decided to sign up again. I only use it occasionally, maybe once or twice a week. It's nice to catch up with family and friends, and it's very simple to filter out the cruft that you have no interest in.

by bbarn 9y ago

duncan_bayne 9y ago

I'm busy shutting down a throwaway FB account that I used to sign up to Spotify back in the day. They don't make it easy. The process, according to Spotify support, is: + Create a new Spotify account + Contact Spotify support to migrate playlists etc. across. + Cancel my paid subscription on the old account. + Create a new paid subscription on the new account. + Migrate my family members onto the new account. This is reminiscent of Microsoft's strategies back in the 90s, to make it incredibly difficult to ship a PC w/o DOS (and later, Windows).

jbigelow76 9y ago
Was there a time, and if so was this throwaway FB account part of it, when you could only sign up to Spotify with a FB account? I was a paying member of Spotify for about two years and my account wasn't tied to FB but Spotify had already been around for a few years prior.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  I'm unsure - I think there was, based on forum chatter. Certainly if there was another way to sign up when I did, I was unaware of it.
- intoverflow2 9y ago
  > Was there a time, and if so was this throwaway FB account part of it, when you could only sign up to Spotify with a FB account? Yes from the early beta Spotify had it's own account system, then it switched to all new accounts must be FB but legacy accounts could still sign in. This was a while ago though around the time I stopped using it.

austenallred 9y ago

What rationale could I possibly give someone to stop using Facebook that would convince them to forgo all of the value they get from it?

aaron-lebo 9y ago
There's obvious abstract reasons why they should stop using it: 1. Facebook knows about all of your interactions on Facebook, and they probably know what you are buying and what sites you visit through tracking mechanisms. In real life we call those people stalkers. 2. What utility are they really getting? Is keeping up with every part of your friend's life (or the good parts they show you) really worth the stress and anxiety of feeling like you are missing out? It's fake utility. People somehow existed for something like 300,000 years without this utility, so what value is really there? That being said, it's designed to get people addicted and the immediate "utility" is a lot stronger than any abstract worries, so there's probably nothing you can say.
- austenallred 9y ago
  > Facebook knows about all of your interactions on Facebook, and they probably know what you are buying and what sites you visit through tracking mechanisms. So what? I mean that earnestly - why is it inherently bad if a company knows a lot about me? > What utility are they really getting? It's fake utility. Do you really believe that easily keeping up with friends is "fake" utility? You really think that billions of people log on to a website every day that provides no "real" utility? > People somehow existed for something like 300,000 years without this utility, so what value is really there? People existed for a long time without the the lightbulb, automobiles, the wheel, computers, etc. You're basically arguing that there can't be any utility in anything new.
  - rlucas 9y ago
    42% of the US population smoked daily. You really think that a hundred million people lit up daily with no "real" utility?

laurieg 9y ago

I would like to stop, but the devil is in the details. Facebook is used for many social and business events. I get a lot of work via contacts that come through facebook. Withought it I'm certain I would miss out on some of these. I'd also miss out on keeping up with family abroad. Do you have any suggestions?

bbarn 9y ago
4 years later, and I have missed out on invitations to a few parties I probably didn't want to go to, and one that comes to mind that I did want to go to, but found out about with enough time anyway. I honestly believe they've done a fantastic job convincing you it's more important to you than it is. It sounds like from your examples you're the perfect case for lock-in they are after. It's penetrated your business and family life so much you're afraid to leave it. That bothered me when I started to feel like that, which is why I left. Since then so many other things have happened (there's a link-fest from another commenter on this thread that I won't bother to compete with - thanks) that I'm pretty good with accepting that I might have missed out on a few things as a result.

laurieg 9y ago

onewaystreet 9y ago

> I've said it before here, and I'll say it every time it's relevant What makes this one of those times?

toomuchtodo 9y ago
OP might have meant when Facebook exhibits another attribute closely resembling a skinner box [1]. Or the use of their platform as a world scale behavioral analysis experiment. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber "An operant conditioning chamber permits experimenters to study behavior conditioning (training) by teaching a subject animal to perform certain actions (like pressing a lever) in response to specific stimuli, such as a light or sound signal. When the subject correctly performs the behavior, the chamber mechanism delivers food or another reward. In some cases, the mechanism delivers a punishment for incorrect or missing responses." https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/4/10708590/facebook-google-android-app-crash-tests https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/4/10708590/facebook-google-a... "Facebook made its Android app crash to test your loyalty" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-activates-same-part-of-the-brain-as-cocaine.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-... "Facebook addiction ‘activates same part of the brain as cocaine’" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886911005332 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886911... "Narcissism on Facebook: Self-promotional and anti-social behavior" https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/#1d500b85197c https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook... "Facebook Manipulated 689,003 Users' Emotions For Science" https://twitter.com/niftyc/status/482925976251154432 https://twitter.com/niftyc/status/482925976251154432 "#facebook emotional contagion study effect sizes are small--probably nobody was driven to suicide. #jokingnotjoking http://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788.full http://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788.full …"

psyc 9y ago

I don't know which is more disturbing: that Facebook, by including this feature, seems to presume itself a ubiquitous public utility, or that it could actually become one.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

For all its flaws, there's nothing that can actually replace the functions of Facebook, especially if you have a lot of friends and family all over the world. It's a centralised platform where I can message almost everyone I know, and put people in group chats. It's also very useful to be able to tell at a glance where people are, and get updates as to what people are doing or where they are going, and also to be able let other people know where I am or what I am doing. It does have its fair share of issues, like too many posts from pages showing up, or people tagging other people in posts showing up. It also has its ethical issues, but for me they are outweighed by the power and convenience of the platform.

djhworld 9y ago

Just use it occasionally then. I deleted my account and was "clean" for a few years, but last year decided to sign up again. I only use it occasionally, maybe once or twice a week. It's nice to catch up with family and friends, and it's very simple to filter out the cruft that you have no interest in.