9 ms·
How to kill a company's morale in one easy memo
- mcantor 16y agoFrom mildweed's comment in the CalTech thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1455037 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1455037
- sigzero 16y agoWe got this: "Recognizing that many of you may have childcare obligations that may create a personal challenge for you please seek approval from your manager to deviate from the above and don’t allow your personal schedule to take priority over your need to support your team’s efforts to service the customer." A lot of people where I work didn't particularly like the tone of that.
- bryanh 16y agoTranslation: "Kids are important and stuff, but keeping customers happy is what matters."
- bitwize 16y ago"You're supposed to be helping OUR people! What about our stockholders? Who's looking out for them? HUH?!" --Gilbert Huph
- pyre 16y agoI wonder if the reason that they get voted as a 'great place to work' is because the company consists mostly of people that haven't worked anywhere else (or it's just a comparison to other businesses in the KC area)? I had someone I knew in college go off to work at Cerner in ~2003, and I remember that at the time they had a fairly good rating as a good place to work, but that most of their new hires were recent grads (at least on the software end of things).
- abstractbill 16y agoFrom the comments: My sister used to work for a large multinational that pressured people to come in on Saturdays. The employees would come in but they would work on personal tasks like paying bills and balancing their checkbooks. It was all for appearance and it just pissed off the employees. She left the company after this pressure started. Part of her Saturday "work" was looking for a new job. In my experience this is par for the course. Sure, you can force employees to spend more time in the office, but past a certain point they'll just find ways to satisfy your crazy demands only in the most technical sense possible.
- Periodic 16y agoIt's a case of misplaced metrics. I can't find the name of the paper or the researcher, but I believe it's been shown that when you try to reward/punish some metric of productivity, invariably the employees will begin to maximize that metric, perhaps at the expense of productivity. Measuring number of hours in the office is not a direct measurement of productivity, and these employees were meeting the metric, but only costing the company money, not making it any. Incentive structures are tricky.
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago>I believe it's been shown that when you try to reward/punish some metric of productivity, invariably the employees will begin to maximize that metric, perhaps at the expense of productivity. After years of direct involvement in measuring productivity, I would accept that as a general axiom. I've likened it to badly applied wallpaper: push down a bubble and it just pops up somewhere else.
- andybak 16y agoLooks like someone needs to read The Mythical Man Month. (I know TMMM is about specifically software engineering but for a CEO to think that bums on seats==productivity is fairly depressing) On a aide note - Americans! Move to Europe! Our economy is collapsing too but we're having a much better time watching it happen...
- mkramlich 16y agoyour last line there was the funniest comment I've read on HN in years. thank you!
- j_baker 16y ago"I think this parental type action SUCKS. However, what you are doing, as managers, with this company makes me SICK. It makes sick to have to write this directive. I know I am painting with a broad brush and the majority of the KC based associates are hard working, committed to Cerner success and committed to transforming health care. I know the parking lot is not a great measurement for 'effort'. I know that 'results' is what counts, not 'effort'. But I am through with the debate." This part proves that this guy is the worst kind of douchebag: one that knows what he is doing is stupid and heavy handed, and yet does it anyway.
- jgrahamc 16y agoOn the company's web site there's a page about him (he's the CEO): http://cerner.com/public/Cerner_2.asp?id=27586 http://cerner.com/public/Cerner_2.asp?id=27586 In that it says: "Cerner associates extol Neal for his passion and foresight, his ability to drive change within organizations, his entrepreneurial spirit, and his candid, uninhibited conversational style." So that's just a candid, uninhibited conversational style :-) Note that that message was sent in 2001. If you chart CERN against the NASDAQ over the last 10 years you'll see that the memo hasn't hurt company stock price one bit. http://www.google.co.uk/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1277323200000&chddm=491878&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=INDEXNASDAQ:.IXIC&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:CERN&ntsp=0 http://www.google.co.uk/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=...
- brown9-2 16y agoLooks like their stock price was pretty volatile in 2001. Is it really likely then that employee action was the reason for a 20% drop?
- mrbgty 16y agoAre you defending this guy?
- jgrahamc 16y agoNo. I'm pointing out that he may be a total ass, but it doesn't seem to have hurt his company.
- Mankhool 16y agoNever confuse movement with action.
- brown9-2 16y agoThe fact that the CEO sends emails with subject lines such as " MANAGEMENT DIRECTIVE: Week #10_01: ..." (with "directives" numbered by week and sequence) should have been warning enough. update: Google Finance and Reuters show that the Chairman and CEO of Cerner in 2006 is still in the position today. Looks like their stock has recovered from this "20% drop nicely": http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:CERN http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:CERN
- RK 16y agoThe comments imply the original memo was from 2001.
- neilc 16y agoBut Neal Patterson, the author of the memo, is still the CEO and chairman of the board. http://www.cerner.com/public/Cerner_2.asp?id=27586 http://www.cerner.com/public/Cerner_2.asp?id=27586
- sanj 16y agoNeal Patterson isn't only the CEO of Cerner, he's also the Founder.
- ScotterC 16y agoMan this is terrible management and exactly the type of thing that just asks for backlash. Where's the students of history? When you create a police state like this in a company, control will be lost, morale will fall and productivity crashes. Abusing your force only makes it worse.
- dget 16y agoWhile I agree that it asks for backlash - do we actually know what happened? It seems like the company's doing decently, so I'm not sure the students of history will have much to work off of.
- ScotterC 16y agoMore talking about actual history such as 19th century Europe. However this memo is dated as August '06 so we can assume that it happened sometime earlier that summer. From this google finance chart: http://bit.ly/ar1PSo http://bit.ly/ar1PSo it shows the massive dip the company took in July of the same year. Aside from all that, actions like this will bite you in the ass in one form another. I doubt many visitors to hacker news hold CEO Neal L. Patterson in high regard after this.
- JoachimSchipper 16y agoActually, other comments mention 2001.
- ScotterC 16y agoGuess I need to re think my argument then eh?
- dbrannan 16y agoHmm... sounds like this issue could be solved if everyone stopped car-pooling.
- raganwald 16y ago+1. Your comment may look like a "witty reply," but it hints at the futility of measuring results so indirectly. Cars in the parking lot != results.
- jasonlotito 16y agoTo be fair, that was addressed in the letter.
- ZeroGravitas 16y agoWhich, to be fair, only makes the guy seem more out of touch with reality.
- nuxi7 16y agoOr if everyone just left their cars at work and took public transit/carpools the rest of the time.
- Silhouette 16y agoDon't encourage them! Car parks have proven to be one of the most reliable indicators of whether I want to work at a company. On arrival for interview, I take a look around. If there are lots of nice cars, it's a good sign that the company is doing well and compensates its staff accordingly. If there are lots of older cars, it's probably a geek-friendly start-up atmosphere, not making much money yet, but everyone's in it together. If there are a small number of very expensive cars in reserved spots for senior management, and in the few other spaces available there are lots of old cars, IME there is a 100% probability that I will not want to work there. If people start doing things like car pooling, this almost perfect way to avoid wasting several hours in an interview for a job I'm never going to accept anyway will be spoiled, and I'll have to find some other obvious prejudice to use! :-)
- dbrannan 16y agoHmm... sounds like this issue could be solved if everyone stopped car-pooling.
- hernan7 16y agoSee also: http://philip.greenspun.com/ancient-history/managing-software-engineers http://philip.greenspun.com/ancient-history/managing-softwar... At least Greenspun took into account the need of his engineers' air to be humidified.
- aphyr 16y agoAm I the only person who saw the line about the parking lot being half empty at 8 and 5 and thought, "Oh, that's consistent with a normal distribution of people working 10 hour days with a couple hour variance in arrival times"?
- tonystubblebine 16y agoI thought there was going to be a punchline about the CEO not realizing that they'd laid off 50% of staff.
- tygorius 16y agoGiven that the memo was a rant aimed at managers over problems that dated back a year, I took it to mean "You guys are working hard on things and leading by example, right?" I've had a couple of bosses who worked hard and expected the managers to work hard too. They were also bosses who believed in sharing the wealth when the company succeeded. Which makes me wonder how many pieces of the puzzle (like his apology/clarification memo) we're not privy to.
- antidaily 16y agoIn April of 2010, Forbes magazine named Patterson fourth on their annual list of "America's Best-Performing Bosses" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Patterson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Patterson
- wazoox 16y agoDoesn't excuse being an horrible asshole.
- zaa 16y agoIt is just a business, nothing personal :-)
- wazoox 16y agoFinally he could have said it more nicely and clearly: "if you work for me, you're expected to have no family life, no personal life, to be manic crazies who live and breathe for their work only ."
- CamperBob 16y agoThe memo's almost ten years old. Maybe he learned from the reaction he provoked?
- mfukar 16y agoDepends on your point of view. It certainly is excused if you're a Cerner stockholder, right?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- wynand 16y agoWow, I wish I knew which tech companies you are talking about. The world I know is one where people work all the time, are lucky to have half decent computers on which to work and definitely never get any of those cushy benefits. Thing is, people in aerospace in the 50's to 70's had a mission and they worked on cool things. If you're working for a typical software company you have neither (unless you consider refactoring that enterprise app as a mission), High ranking people love this kind of moralism, because it feels like they're really doing something. But the proof is in the pudding and guilt-tripping people about having reasonable working spaces is not going to make people do good work. This CEO is lazy. Building a good working culture is mundane and takes a long time with constant little tweaks. But nothing beats the rush of thinking you've ruffled some feathers. It's the equivalent of parents doling out corporal punishment to kids: it really seems to work, but at best does nothing over a long period and at worst creates distrust and fear. Real parenting takes effort, as does real management.
- leelin 16y agoI'll call some BS on the stock price affect... after some quick Googling this article seems to pinpoint the exact date: http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/news/4296-1.html http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/news/4296-1.html Comparing CERN stock vs the S&P500, Dow Jones, and a related company ECLP and MDRX will show that all of them tanked the same week, and all of them recovered quite well within a month or so.
- nl 16y agoThe link above is actually about the effect this memo had on the stock price. To quote: A blunt e-mail message from Cerner Corp. CEO Neal Patterson about the work ethic of some employees caused the company's stock value to fall sharply last week. The company acknowledges the harsh tone of the message could have caused investors to question if the company was in crisis ... After the e-mail was posted on a Yahoo! bulletin board last week, the stock fell nearly 20% on March 22-23, including 15%, or $6.13 per share, on March 23. Patterson threatened installing time clocks, discontinuing an employee stock discount program and cutting staff by five percent, a morale blow at a company that prides itself on good employee relations. He told managers they had two weeks to get their units in shape, or "pack your bags." In a March 23 interview with the Kansas City Star, Patterson said threatening measures are not being pursued, but he continued to voice concern about work ethics in some segments of the company. He also sent out another e-mail apologizing for the harsh tone of the first one. It would be interesting to see the apology email.
- CWuestefeld 16y agoI wonder why he's such a jerk. I can't imagine treating the folks in my department that way. I don't want to own their souls. I hope that they consider the work that they do here enriching, and I also believe that in partnership we make a better department as well as better lives for all of us. I'm proud that our people lead fulfilling lives that include much more than banging out code. Somebody who wants people to dedicate their lives to their jobs; indeed, someone who seems to want to live in a world where people act that way, is just a mystery to me.
- hernan7 16y agoBy the way, isn't this what working for Apple is supposed to be like? Except that when you do get to go home, you can't even discuss what you were working on during the day. Edit: downvote if you must, but info on the work/life balance at Apple is preferred.
- ax0n 16y agoAs an IT guy hailing from the general area that Cerner calls home, I can honestly say this is where hackers' souls go to die.
- fred24 16y agoThis memo is really from 2003 according to one commenter on the Technocrat page claiming to have worked there. If thats true, Cerner stock is up over 600% since - Dow is up 16%. Well...
- ryanwaggoner 16y agoI'd actually like to take a step back from the hate-fest going on in the comments here and evaluate this. Before you downvote me, at least read what I have to say. This email is a classic example of poor communication. It's very clear that the guy is frustrated and is taking it out via an emotional response. However, we don't know the whole story here, do we? From my reading, it sounds like this has been an ongoing problem for awhile now. Keep in mind that this was in 2001, not exactly an easy time to be running a software company. I can imagine the frustration of running a large company with thousands of employees and seeing a lack of results, coupled with evidence of employees not spending much time at work. What would you do in such a case? Not necessarily with regard to the email, which I think we can all agree was in poor taste, but with regard to the actions he says he's going to take. Additionally, we don't know if this memo did in fact kill morale at the company. We know that the company has done well over the last nine years, and that Mr. Patterson was recently honored as one of the best bosses in the country. The Wikipedia entry specifically mentions the metric of great performance relative to compensation, so he's obviously creating value. I guess my point is that everyone makes mistakes, especially when they're frustrated and facing a large problem. And make no mistake, managing a software company with several thousand people in 2001 would be a challenge. I'm not saying this was the right approach, but what exactly would you do? And more importantly, if you've never faced management at that scale, why do you think it would be more effective than his approach?
- hyperbovine 16y agoTo get where the author of this memo got (CEO of a publicly traded corporation), work essentially has to be your life. I mean, your #1 priority, ahead of friends, family, fun, and everything else. I have never seen an example of such a person at the helm of a large, multinational corporation, who does not, generally, appear to fit that description. This memo illustrates the total disconnect between that sort of person, and the other 97% of us for whom work ranks a distant 5th-10th on life's list of priorities. So, in some sense, it's understandable. Inexcusable, but I at least get the place from where this sort of vitriol is coming from. He really thinks he can get people to care as much as he does. In some ways it's amazing that he made it so far while remaining so deluded.
- umjames 16y agoThe CEO should be required to go to Kansas City and work alongside the employees who he thinks are slacking off. That includes being in by 8am, staying late every night, and coming in on Saturdays. Everyday, he cannot leave until all of the employees leave, and while he's there he must help do the actual work that needs doing so badly. He cannot leave Kansas City until the productivity levels rise to his liking. After all, if he thinks this is reasonable for his employees, he should lead by example.
- brg 16y agoHave you ever been around senior management of a larger company? Everyone I have met works at least 10 hours a day, and often more. Except for vacation days perhaps, but even then they are still tied to the laptop and phone.
- umjames 16y agoYes, but I'm sure it's ultimately their choice. Does the board of directors or stockholders send the CEO a memo that his car is not in the parking lot long enough for their liking? If the CEO wants to work him/herself into an early grave, that's his/her choice. But to force employees who, let's face it, aren't going to be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor like the CEO will, to give up large portions of their personal time to improve the wrong metric? That's unreasonable.
- MikeMacMan 16y agoAgreed. This reads like the ranting of some fossil that clamors for the 'good ol' days' when everyone used to be married to their job. This is apparently one of the best places to work in the country, according to ComputerWorld: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/349873/No._52_Best_Place_to_Work_in_IT_Cerner http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/349873/No._52_Best_Pl...
- Dove 16y agoConcur. I've seen upper management at my company doing 70 hour weeks routinely, while their staff meanders along without so much as mandatory overtime. It's a combination of ambition, dedication, different incentives, a tighter identification with the company itself . . . I'd think twice before taking that path in life.
- butterfi 16y ago"We Make Health Care Smarter" But we apparently don't check for spelling or grammar.
- wyclif 16y agoAgreed. It reads like someone who is so fried from overwork he can't spell anymore. Not a good advertisement for working 70 hr. weeks.
- teilo 16y agoSounds like this guy must have had an unfortunate convergence of: A late-night viewing of Glengarry Glen Ross. A fight with his wife. A bottle of JD.
- kitchen 16y agomaybe they all started biking to work?
- xster 16y agoExpectations of having employees stay until 7:30 when they're payed to stay until 5... how did we get there?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- dedward 16y agoHypothetically... The memo would certainly kill morale at most places I've been. The corrective actions being asked for are completely wrong.. but this is aimed at middle management. Read the beginning of the memo - not the end. If the parking lot is largely empty at 8am and at 5pm..... and workers are expected to work a standard 40 hour week, that's an indication that something might be wrong. One can also assume that if the organization was functioning correctly and middle management was doing it's job - the CEO wouldn't give a rat's a about the parking lot - because he'd have the metrics in front of him to say "Damn, that KC facility is doing awesome! Every other facility should be learning from these guys.". Instead, something prompted him to feel that the place was slacking, and seeing an empty parking lot at 8am AND 5pm is a pretty good indication that people aren't even putting in minimal working hours. Fair enough. (And if he's completely wrong - middle management should be able to manage upwards correctly and explain to him why he's wrong, why everyone is car-pooling and why the metrics and results are best-of-class, so he should just back off)
- joejohnson 16y agoThat blog layout is really hard to read. There isn't enough structure around the text and too many similar fonts or font sizes are used.
- iuguy 16y agoWow. I'd never work there. If I did, I wouldn't work there for much longer. We work on the principle of letting people manage their own time. When there's stuff that needs doing, it gets done but there's always at least some time off afterwards to make sure people can recover from late nights or weekends.
- curiousgeorge 16y agoAt risk of sounding like a complete asshat to apparently everyone else on this thread, a 9:00 - 4:00 workday is what I had in kindergarten. If I were running a company with this issue I'd consider it a big problem too.
- dsulli 16y agoThis is a CEO of a company that wants to get a product out the door. Sometimes that's not easy. He's basically using the tools at his disposal. It sounds like he's given his team a year, and they still haven't delivered. An email like this can sometimes shake out the non-performing team members and lead them to quit. In a company with 7,600 employees - I'm pretty sure not every one is a star performer. Anyways, I've worked for a CTO who basically was a raving lunatic. Every couple of months there would be some kind of a blow up. But, looking back, we also did some amazing work under him, and created a cutting edge service still used 6 years later.
- loewenskind 16y agoFrom the NYT article on this event [1]. >It made Fortune magazine's lists in 1998 and 2000 of the 100 best companies to work for in America. Why do people still cite this ridiculous report? It's had both Walmart and EA in the list. Both companies are about as bad to work for as is possible as a professional in a first world country. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-memo-boomerangs-chief-executive-criticized-after-upbraiding.html?ref=cerner-corporation&pagewanted=2 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-m...
- dagw 16y agoI imagine it depends a lot on what you do. Fortune magazine targets rich manager type people so I'm assuming they mean best companies to work as a highly paid manager. I have no reason to believe that Walmart or EA (the actual EA, not one of their game studios) couldn't be great companies to work for if you're a senior manager in charge of major aspect of the company. If I was a global logistics guy, Walmart might very well be at the top of my list of companies I'd like to work for.