5 ms·

There will be comments about how some information from actual news organizations contains opinions or incorrect facts...and therefore it's in the same universe

by uses 9y ago

There will be comments about how some information from actual news organizations contains opinions or incorrect facts...and therefore it's in the same universe with fake news. This is like, the definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater... And it's the actual final goal of the most evil forms of propaganda. Overwhelm the audience with false information > make it harder to determine true vs false > maybe no source can really be trusted > all sources of information have some kind of agenda > all sources of information are roughly equal in quality. Now in the mind of the individual in question, the playing field has been leveled between propaganda and the work of trained journalists. And at that point it's not a real contest.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bsder 9y ago
Apparently Huxley was more accurate than Orwell ...
pitt1980 9y ago
Is fake news that's created in Eastern Europe or somewhere actually that tricky? who does it actually fool? There are obviously some people this stuff fools, as a class though, are the people who fall for this stuff high trust nodes in the information universe? The problem with the Washington Post or wherever, is that when they get their facts wrong, or slanted, it takes a far more careful reader to catch it, and the people likely to spread it, tend to be far more trustworthy
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nl 9y ago
  who does it actually fool? There was more than one person on HN who argued very strongly that PizzaGate was a real thing. I found that completely shocking.
  - fivestar 9y ago
    The fact is that there was a pedophile scandal in the UK. You believe that, correct? People were prosecuted, yes? Also, you realize that US Catholic priests, and very likely priests in other nations have been involved in innumerable cases of child molestation. Also correct? Or is that just fake news? So why is it such a giant leap of faith to suspect, given the rumors, that a similar scandal might exist amongst elites in the US? Whether some pizza shop was the nexus of the whole thing, I have no idea, that isn't the point. The point is that powerful people with twisted appetites may be getting away with extremely reckless and illegal behavior and therefore deserves our attention. Right now, we know there is 'human trafficking' going on. Who is involved? If wealthy elites outside of politics are involved, is it not that giant a leap to assume that political elites are also involved? And that some compare notes?
    - nl 9y ago
      Whether some pizza shop was the nexus of the whole thing, I have no idea, that isn't the point. No, it's exactly the point. It was a specific story with specific allegations which were untrue. The rest of your comment is "something could be going on".
      - qb45 9y ago
        There was more to it than just a single shop. Some random HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13432098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13432098
        nl 9y ago
        You realise that isn't anything more than what was posted above, right? There's a link to some email and some art. No alleged victims, no evidence, nothing. Just some interpretation of an email.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
cryoshon 9y ago
>And it's the actual final goal of the most evil forms of propaganda. Overwhelm the audience with false information > make it harder to determine true vs false > maybe no source can really be trusted > all sources of information have some kind of agenda > all sources of information are roughly equal in quality. Now in the mind of the individual in question, the playing field has been leveled between propaganda and the work of trained journalists. And at that point it's not a real contest. agreed. but it's already done. we're already at this point. it's a media strategy taken directly from putin's handbook... and deployed in the US by our president. the solution is to train the public in critical thinking. except nobody will pay for that, so it won't get done.
Spivak 9y ago
Let's look at it this way, what would high quality fake news look like? * Well written with proper spelling and grammar. * Clean and professional presentation. * Cites reputable sources. * No obvious 'smells' of deception or manipulation. But such articles would contain subtle inaccuracies, misrepresent data, take quotes out of context, exploit the readers lack of domain specific knowledge, omit important information, draw incorrect conclusions from sources, present opinions at authoritative, play on readers intellectual or emotional weaknesses, exaggerate or minimize various facts, the list could go on. All with the goal of pushing a political or corporate narrative. High quality fake news would be incredibly difficult to uncover, even harder to correct, and could reasonably apply to some capital-N news organizations. So you're right, we shouldn't put them in the same category, the professionals are way better at it.

by uses 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

bsder 9y ago

Apparently Huxley was more accurate than Orwell ...

pitt1980 9y ago

Is fake news that's created in Eastern Europe or somewhere actually that tricky? who does it actually fool? There are obviously some people this stuff fools, as a class though, are the people who fall for this stuff high trust nodes in the information universe? The problem with the Washington Post or wherever, is that when they get their facts wrong, or slanted, it takes a far more careful reader to catch it, and the people likely to spread it, tend to be far more trustworthy

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nl 9y ago
who does it actually fool? There was more than one person on HN who argued very strongly that PizzaGate was a real thing. I found that completely shocking.
- fivestar 9y ago
  The fact is that there was a pedophile scandal in the UK. You believe that, correct? People were prosecuted, yes? Also, you realize that US Catholic priests, and very likely priests in other nations have been involved in innumerable cases of child molestation. Also correct? Or is that just fake news? So why is it such a giant leap of faith to suspect, given the rumors, that a similar scandal might exist amongst elites in the US? Whether some pizza shop was the nexus of the whole thing, I have no idea, that isn't the point. The point is that powerful people with twisted appetites may be getting away with extremely reckless and illegal behavior and therefore deserves our attention. Right now, we know there is 'human trafficking' going on. Who is involved? If wealthy elites outside of politics are involved, is it not that giant a leap to assume that political elites are also involved? And that some compare notes?
  - nl 9y ago
    Whether some pizza shop was the nexus of the whole thing, I have no idea, that isn't the point. No, it's exactly the point. It was a specific story with specific allegations which were untrue. The rest of your comment is "something could be going on".
    - qb45 9y ago
      There was more to it than just a single shop. Some random HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13432098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13432098
      - nl 9y ago
        You realise that isn't anything more than what was posted above, right? There's a link to some email and some art. No alleged victims, no evidence, nothing. Just some interpretation of an email.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

cryoshon 9y ago

>And it's the actual final goal of the most evil forms of propaganda. Overwhelm the audience with false information > make it harder to determine true vs false > maybe no source can really be trusted > all sources of information have some kind of agenda > all sources of information are roughly equal in quality. Now in the mind of the individual in question, the playing field has been leveled between propaganda and the work of trained journalists. And at that point it's not a real contest. agreed. but it's already done. we're already at this point. it's a media strategy taken directly from putin's handbook... and deployed in the US by our president. the solution is to train the public in critical thinking. except nobody will pay for that, so it won't get done.

Spivak 9y ago

Let's look at it this way, what would high quality fake news look like? * Well written with proper spelling and grammar. * Clean and professional presentation. * Cites reputable sources. * No obvious 'smells' of deception or manipulation. But such articles would contain subtle inaccuracies, misrepresent data, take quotes out of context, exploit the readers lack of domain specific knowledge, omit important information, draw incorrect conclusions from sources, present opinions at authoritative, play on readers intellectual or emotional weaknesses, exaggerate or minimize various facts, the list could go on. All with the goal of pushing a political or corporate narrative. High quality fake news would be incredibly difficult to uncover, even harder to correct, and could reasonably apply to some capital-N news organizations. So you're right, we shouldn't put them in the same category, the professionals are way better at it.