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There's a significant part of the U.S. population that wants to roll back gay marriage. What if that happened? As it is, you'd have to move out of the country.

There's a significant part of the U.S. population that wants to roll back gay marriage. What if that happened? As it is, you'd have to move out of the country. You're relying on the right people being in office/power making the right decisions in your opinion. But of course, at any point the wrong people can get into office and make the wrong decision in your opinion. For nearly half the country, that happened when Obama entered office, and then again when Trump entered office.

gnaritas 9y ago
> There's a significant part of the U.S. population that wants to roll back gay marriage. Oppressing others isn't something that should be allowed to happen, period; those people are simply wrong, the position is immoral and indefensible. These things belong at the federal level, states should not be allowed to say oppression is OK because a majority of our citizens want to oppress gays.
- subverter 9y ago
  To quote you above[1]: > That's a matter of opinion. To be clear, I am not one who is in favor of rolling back gay marriage. But you cannot logically say > Oppressing others isn't something that should be allowed to happen, period while in the same breath calling for the oppression of those you disagree with. It's an inconsistent position using the same argument you're railing against. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14555374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14555374
  - bjl 9y ago
    Good thing the paradox of tolerance has been solved for over a century! Now if only we could get the message out to people like you that seem to delight in ignoring centuries of philosophical discussion on this topic.
    - subverter 9y ago
      I'm not ignoring it, I just don't think it makes sense. "I'm tolerant of everyone except those I view as intolerant." In other words, you're intolerant of those you disagree with. I believe true tolerance is respecting that everyone can have their own opinion/worldview. We can certainly disagree and have a good discussion about it, but nobody should be forcing their opinion/worldview on others who don't agree.
      - bjl 9y ago
        All I can say is that I'm glad the vast majority of academia, and the population in general, think your position is indefensible.
      - gnaritas 9y ago
        > but nobody should be forcing their opinion/worldview on others who don't agree. And where in this thread has me or anyone forced our world view on you? Not allowing you to force your view on others isn't forcing our view on you. Frankly I don't think you understand what oppression or tolerance actually is.
        subverter 9y ago
        Nowhere. I haven't claimed that. We're having a (mostly) thoughtful discussion with different opinions, which is great. If you read back through the hierarchy to my comment here[1], you'll see that I ask the hypothetical question, What if gay marriage were rolled back in the U.S.?, to make the point that currently you'd have to move out of the country to escape the law. I do not believe in rolling it back! I used it as an example of a law/idea where there's a difference of opinion among worldviews. We're actually on the same page here, gnaritas. People should have equal rights, regardless of their race, gender, sexual identity, etc. Nobody should be forcing their worldview on others. But that's exactly what the federal government does by making decisions that affect everyone. Every decision they make is made from a specific worldview. It's impossible for them to make a decision that complies with every unique worldview out there. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14554612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14554612
  - gnaritas 9y ago
    You're very confused, I haven't called for the oppression of anyone. Disagreeing with people isn't oppressing them, stopping them from oppressing others isn't oppressing them. Stopping a bully from picking on someone isn't oppressing the bully, so yes, I can logically say what I said and you can't logically disagree with it. So please do show me, since you've accused me of it, where I've called to oppress anyone.

gnaritas 9y ago

> There's a significant part of the U.S. population that wants to roll back gay marriage. Oppressing others isn't something that should be allowed to happen, period; those people are simply wrong, the position is immoral and indefensible. These things belong at the federal level, states should not be allowed to say oppression is OK because a majority of our citizens want to oppress gays.

subverter 9y ago
To quote you above[1]: > That's a matter of opinion. To be clear, I am not one who is in favor of rolling back gay marriage. But you cannot logically say > Oppressing others isn't something that should be allowed to happen, period while in the same breath calling for the oppression of those you disagree with. It's an inconsistent position using the same argument you're railing against. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14555374 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14555374
- bjl 9y ago
  Good thing the paradox of tolerance has been solved for over a century! Now if only we could get the message out to people like you that seem to delight in ignoring centuries of philosophical discussion on this topic.
  - subverter 9y ago
    I'm not ignoring it, I just don't think it makes sense. "I'm tolerant of everyone except those I view as intolerant." In other words, you're intolerant of those you disagree with. I believe true tolerance is respecting that everyone can have their own opinion/worldview. We can certainly disagree and have a good discussion about it, but nobody should be forcing their opinion/worldview on others who don't agree.
    - bjl 9y ago
      All I can say is that I'm glad the vast majority of academia, and the population in general, think your position is indefensible.
    - gnaritas 9y ago
      > but nobody should be forcing their opinion/worldview on others who don't agree. And where in this thread has me or anyone forced our world view on you? Not allowing you to force your view on others isn't forcing our view on you. Frankly I don't think you understand what oppression or tolerance actually is.
      - subverter 9y ago
        Nowhere. I haven't claimed that. We're having a (mostly) thoughtful discussion with different opinions, which is great. If you read back through the hierarchy to my comment here[1], you'll see that I ask the hypothetical question, What if gay marriage were rolled back in the U.S.?, to make the point that currently you'd have to move out of the country to escape the law. I do not believe in rolling it back! I used it as an example of a law/idea where there's a difference of opinion among worldviews. We're actually on the same page here, gnaritas. People should have equal rights, regardless of their race, gender, sexual identity, etc. Nobody should be forcing their worldview on others. But that's exactly what the federal government does by making decisions that affect everyone. Every decision they make is made from a specific worldview. It's impossible for them to make a decision that complies with every unique worldview out there. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14554612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14554612
- gnaritas 9y ago
  You're very confused, I haven't called for the oppression of anyone. Disagreeing with people isn't oppressing them, stopping them from oppressing others isn't oppressing them. Stopping a bully from picking on someone isn't oppressing the bully, so yes, I can logically say what I said and you can't logically disagree with it. So please do show me, since you've accused me of it, where I've called to oppress anyone.