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> We can't afford to have children. Instead of seeing this as a problem, I consider it a weapon in this war of generations. I'm denying my parents the joy of gr

> We can't afford to have children. Instead of seeing this as a problem, I consider it a weapon in this war of generations. I'm denying my parents the joy of grandchildren. A few things: 1. You're also denying yourself the joy of grandchildren. And children, who can be really wonderful in their own right... 2. Instead of thinking of your decision to not have children as something that affects your parents, maybe think of it as something that affects your children. The only way they get to enjoy life is if you make them exist... 3. In light of #2, maybe consider lowering your bar for what you think is "necessary" in order to have children. If you decide not to have kids, the alternative for those kids you would have had is not that they get to have some posh upbringing with all the fixins. No, the alternative is that they never get a chance at life. Just some food for thought...

int_19h 9y ago
There's no "they" there - a person that doesn't yet exist does not feel or suffer, and therefore they cannot be meaningfully empathized with, nor can there be any moral obligations towards them.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  > nor can there be any moral obligations towards them I think most people have a sense of moral obligation to unborn humans. If you have ever felt that the current batch of humans has an obligation to not screw up the earth for the humans who will come later, then you feel a moral obligation to unborn humans. And even if you don't, I assure you that many people do.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    There's a difference between an obligation to humanity as an aggregate entity, which is sort of always there with an uninterrupted continuity (even as individual members are born and die), and obligation to a specific hypothetical human being that may or may not exist. This is especially weird in the context this question, where your very decision is about whether they'll exist. I just don't see how an obligation to create can be owed prior to creation.
zbyte64 9y ago
1. You can have children further down the line... 2. Exactly, think of the kids. Conditions are not favorable for having children at the moment. Odds are it will be better for the child if I wait a few years. Whose fault is that? Not mine. 3. "necessary" at what level? To have children you don't need healthcare, decent education, and a safe clean home. Just some food for thought... Many people, including my dad, are literally voting for the 2nd coming of Jesus at the cost of the next generation. Maybe we don't want our kids to have anything to do with that fuckery but lack the financial means to do so.

int_19h 9y ago

There's no "they" there - a person that doesn't yet exist does not feel or suffer, and therefore they cannot be meaningfully empathized with, nor can there be any moral obligations towards them.

toasterlovin 9y ago
> nor can there be any moral obligations towards them I think most people have a sense of moral obligation to unborn humans. If you have ever felt that the current batch of humans has an obligation to not screw up the earth for the humans who will come later, then you feel a moral obligation to unborn humans. And even if you don't, I assure you that many people do.
- int_19h 9y ago
  There's a difference between an obligation to humanity as an aggregate entity, which is sort of always there with an uninterrupted continuity (even as individual members are born and die), and obligation to a specific hypothetical human being that may or may not exist. This is especially weird in the context this question, where your very decision is about whether they'll exist. I just don't see how an obligation to create can be owed prior to creation.

zbyte64 9y ago

1. You can have children further down the line... 2. Exactly, think of the kids. Conditions are not favorable for having children at the moment. Odds are it will be better for the child if I wait a few years. Whose fault is that? Not mine. 3. "necessary" at what level? To have children you don't need healthcare, decent education, and a safe clean home. Just some food for thought... Many people, including my dad, are literally voting for the 2nd coming of Jesus at the cost of the next generation. Maybe we don't want our kids to have anything to do with that fuckery but lack the financial means to do so.