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Here in Florida, those forest fires are required for some of the tree species in the endangered Florida scrub[1] and sandhill[2] ecosystems to germinate, in add

Here in Florida, those forest fires are required for some of the tree species in the endangered Florida scrub[1] and sandhill[2] ecosystems to germinate, in addition to clearing out space for smaller plants to thrive. Florida has a pretty regular controlled burn system though, developed over the years of trying to protect these habitats. I've never lived on the west coast, but I wonder sometimes if the out-of-control wildfires that happen out there so often would be better if there were more controlled burns happening? Or is it just too dry out there for even that? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_scrub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_scrub http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-initiatives/fwli/archive/taking-action/scrub/ http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-initiatives/fwli/archi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_longleaf_pine_sandhill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_longleaf_pine_sandhill http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-initiatives/fwli/archive/taking-action/sandhill/ http://myfwc.com/conservation/special-initiatives/fwli/archi...

germinalphrase 9y ago
I've been told that yes - more frequent, smaller burns would be all around better; however, these areas are largely populated and there is zero political will to voluntarily threaten the properties - even if it reduces the risk of catastrophic fires.
- cowpewter 9y ago
  That sucks. Around here at least most of the areas that need controlled burns are sparsely populated due to it mostly being federal parkland[1]. Anyway, I guess we have sufficient political will here in Florida, or at least we do after we saw what happens when we don't - the wildfires we had in 1998 [2]. Which were terrifying. The fires got within a few miles of our house at one point, and the sky looked like the scene from Fantasia where all the dinosaurs are dying, with an orange sun that was so dimmed by smoke you could look directly at it without even getting an afterimage on your retina. Ash fell from the sky like snow, and everything smelled like woodsmoke for months. [1] The Ocala National Forest https://www.fs.usda.gov/ocala https://www.fs.usda.gov/ocala [2] https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+1998+wildfires+in+Central+Florida%3A+Volusia+County's+own...-a054250752 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+1998+wildfires+in+Central...
munificent 9y ago
The situation in California is quite complex. John McFee's excellent "Control of Nature" has a long essay on the interactions between forest fires, geology, and landslides. I'll probably do a shitty job of paraphrasing, but I'll try. As the population of California has increased, people have increasingly settled farther and farther up the neighboring mountains. The mountain ranges in the area like the San Gabriels are very young geologically. They haven't had the chance to erode down much and are composed of brittle rock just waiting for a chance to break off. So you have a growing population in an area prone to devastating landslides and debris flow[1]. Meanwhile, the mountains are covered in chapparal. These small scrubby bushes have evolved to endure (and in fact in some species require) periodic wildfires every decade or so. When the chapparal burns, it leaves a coating of ashy dust on the ground. That prevents rain water from soaking into the earth. So when a summer storm comes around later, the water starts sheeting down the mountain, taking dirt, rocks, and boulders with it. This is a devastating event. It's very hard to build defenses against it, and hard to predict precisely when it's going to occur. You're talking going from "everything is fine" to "thousands of tons of rock crashing through homes" in a matter of minutes. Ironically, debris flow would be easier to predict with controlled burns, but it's pretty hard sell to say, "Yeah, you're house is going to get flattened next month and we're going to make it happen." So, because of the much greater threat to life (people die in big debris flows all the time) and property, California ends up very hesitant to do controlled burns of the chapparal. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow
- cowpewter 9y ago
  Thank you. I've added that book to my wishlist, it sounds really interesting. Don't really ever have to worry about landslides in Florida (just hurricanes and sinkholes).
- samstave 9y ago
  Wouldnt, also, in certain cases, the ash mix with the soil and make a more hardened clay-like mix which would harden and prevent a certain amount of erosion?
  - 9y ago

germinalphrase 9y ago

I've been told that yes - more frequent, smaller burns would be all around better; however, these areas are largely populated and there is zero political will to voluntarily threaten the properties - even if it reduces the risk of catastrophic fires.

cowpewter 9y ago
That sucks. Around here at least most of the areas that need controlled burns are sparsely populated due to it mostly being federal parkland[1]. Anyway, I guess we have sufficient political will here in Florida, or at least we do after we saw what happens when we don't - the wildfires we had in 1998 [2]. Which were terrifying. The fires got within a few miles of our house at one point, and the sky looked like the scene from Fantasia where all the dinosaurs are dying, with an orange sun that was so dimmed by smoke you could look directly at it without even getting an afterimage on your retina. Ash fell from the sky like snow, and everything smelled like woodsmoke for months. [1] The Ocala National Forest https://www.fs.usda.gov/ocala https://www.fs.usda.gov/ocala [2] https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+1998+wildfires+in+Central+Florida%3A+Volusia+County's+own...-a054250752 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+1998+wildfires+in+Central...

munificent 9y ago

The situation in California is quite complex. John McFee's excellent "Control of Nature" has a long essay on the interactions between forest fires, geology, and landslides. I'll probably do a shitty job of paraphrasing, but I'll try. As the population of California has increased, people have increasingly settled farther and farther up the neighboring mountains. The mountain ranges in the area like the San Gabriels are very young geologically. They haven't had the chance to erode down much and are composed of brittle rock just waiting for a chance to break off. So you have a growing population in an area prone to devastating landslides and debris flow[1]. Meanwhile, the mountains are covered in chapparal. These small scrubby bushes have evolved to endure (and in fact in some species require) periodic wildfires every decade or so. When the chapparal burns, it leaves a coating of ashy dust on the ground. That prevents rain water from soaking into the earth. So when a summer storm comes around later, the water starts sheeting down the mountain, taking dirt, rocks, and boulders with it. This is a devastating event. It's very hard to build defenses against it, and hard to predict precisely when it's going to occur. You're talking going from "everything is fine" to "thousands of tons of rock crashing through homes" in a matter of minutes. Ironically, debris flow would be easier to predict with controlled burns, but it's pretty hard sell to say, "Yeah, you're house is going to get flattened next month and we're going to make it happen." So, because of the much greater threat to life (people die in big debris flows all the time) and property, California ends up very hesitant to do controlled burns of the chapparal. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debris_flow

cowpewter 9y ago
Thank you. I've added that book to my wishlist, it sounds really interesting. Don't really ever have to worry about landslides in Florida (just hurricanes and sinkholes).
samstave 9y ago
Wouldnt, also, in certain cases, the ash mix with the soil and make a more hardened clay-like mix which would harden and prevent a certain amount of erosion?
- 9y ago