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I don't know any chem PhD/Grad students to ask this question, but I'm curious: is this work schedule specific to Chemistry researchers? From my experience in c

I don't know any chem PhD/Grad students to ask this question, but I'm curious: is this work schedule specific to Chemistry researchers? From my experience in college chem classes (I was premed before CS) their research involves lots of experimentation and waiting on reactions to run; a lot of butt-in-seat time might be necessary for them to do their research.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
Academic math/CS is not remotely this bad, at least in my experience. I've never heard of anyone being told to work more hours. I've heard of people being told to get more done, but that's a different issue. In general, a bad supervisor will neglect you rather than force you to do ridiculous amounts of work, and will fail to put in the requisite effort to get you a job.
- _delirium 16y ago
  Same here. I think part of it is that in CS, at least in my area (AI), there's a sort of "producing research progeny" mentality rather than "having a bunch of low-paid staff" mentality. The way you ultimately put your stamp on the field is that, in addition to your own work, you produce a bunch of brilliant researchers who go on to basically found a "school" of AI strongly influenced by your work/views. It feels the profs who care that much about hours/wk are ones who really just have a whole lot of gruntwork they want done, and want grad students to do it. That's not really a good way to produce brilliant research progeny (grad students whose PhD consists entirely of doing gruntwork for you aren't the kind you want for that), but maybe in some areas it's the path to fame--- especially areas where hitting on a Big Result is the way you make your career.
  - hyperbovine 16y ago
    Interesting. I always had a hard time squaring Dave Patterson's "grad students are the coin of the realm" comment with my friends' experiences in other disciplines, which were a lot more along the lines of what went on with this Carreira jerk. My impression regarding this divide is that major discoveries in math, physics, CS etc. tend to be the result of very original, creative thinking--ah-ha! moments--and that is not the sort of thing that can be stimulated by simply doubling the amount of time you spend working. Whereas big papers in chem and bio appear to result, in large part, from a tremendous amount of trial-and-error gruntwork spent on the bench. Certainly, somebody's inspiration (the PI's) is driving the overall research program, but you need a huge amount of manual labor to bring it to fruition. Whereas, in the theory fields, you can just sort of stare off into space until it comes to you. My experience is definitely on the theory side, so I would love to hear what the other sides's thoughts are...
kscaldef 16y ago
I think it is a lot more common in chem and bio for the sort of reasons you say. You have to work on the schedule of the experiment, which isn't always conveniently aligned with an 8-5, M-F schedule. I did theoretical physics at Caltech and there was no expectation of this sort from the profs. Lots of my friends in chem & bio (and to a lesser degree experimental physics) worked kinda crazy schedules. Even in those departments, though, some profs were known to be slave drivers and some were more relaxed.
deleted 16y ago
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yummyfajitas 16y ago

Academic math/CS is not remotely this bad, at least in my experience. I've never heard of anyone being told to work more hours. I've heard of people being told to get more done, but that's a different issue. In general, a bad supervisor will neglect you rather than force you to do ridiculous amounts of work, and will fail to put in the requisite effort to get you a job.

_delirium 16y ago
Same here. I think part of it is that in CS, at least in my area (AI), there's a sort of "producing research progeny" mentality rather than "having a bunch of low-paid staff" mentality. The way you ultimately put your stamp on the field is that, in addition to your own work, you produce a bunch of brilliant researchers who go on to basically found a "school" of AI strongly influenced by your work/views. It feels the profs who care that much about hours/wk are ones who really just have a whole lot of gruntwork they want done, and want grad students to do it. That's not really a good way to produce brilliant research progeny (grad students whose PhD consists entirely of doing gruntwork for you aren't the kind you want for that), but maybe in some areas it's the path to fame--- especially areas where hitting on a Big Result is the way you make your career.
- hyperbovine 16y ago
  Interesting. I always had a hard time squaring Dave Patterson's "grad students are the coin of the realm" comment with my friends' experiences in other disciplines, which were a lot more along the lines of what went on with this Carreira jerk. My impression regarding this divide is that major discoveries in math, physics, CS etc. tend to be the result of very original, creative thinking--ah-ha! moments--and that is not the sort of thing that can be stimulated by simply doubling the amount of time you spend working. Whereas big papers in chem and bio appear to result, in large part, from a tremendous amount of trial-and-error gruntwork spent on the bench. Certainly, somebody's inspiration (the PI's) is driving the overall research program, but you need a huge amount of manual labor to bring it to fruition. Whereas, in the theory fields, you can just sort of stare off into space until it comes to you. My experience is definitely on the theory side, so I would love to hear what the other sides's thoughts are...

kscaldef 16y ago

I think it is a lot more common in chem and bio for the sort of reasons you say. You have to work on the schedule of the experiment, which isn't always conveniently aligned with an 8-5, M-F schedule. I did theoretical physics at Caltech and there was no expectation of this sort from the profs. Lots of my friends in chem & bio (and to a lesser degree experimental physics) worked kinda crazy schedules. Even in those departments, though, some profs were known to be slave drivers and some were more relaxed.

deleted 16y ago

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