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While I totally agree with most of the article, it made me grind my teeth at the frequency the author changes the oil in their car... That poor valvetrain will

While I totally agree with most of the article, it made me grind my teeth at the frequency the author changes the oil in their car... That poor valvetrain will be full of gummy carbon deposits. RIP whoever buys the car second-hand.

rypskar 9y ago
How would changing oil every 2 000 km be a problem? Modern oil should last 10x that long without any problem. I am used to having recommendations for changing oil once a year or every 15k km depending on what comes first. I remember recommendations to change 2 times a year 15-20 years ago because it back then was more normal to have different viscosity in summer and winter
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  Depends on oil. Many cars still run on semi-synth and those require the 15k/1yr routine, full synth can use longer kms and two years, or every year if you do under 5kkm/year
- jhayward 9y ago
  The sticky sludge that GP refers to is for the most part an emulsion of water, produced by combustion and/or from ambient humidity, and oil. If an engine is not run frequently or is used only for short intervals the water isn't driven off by engine heat. Engines that aren't run much must be maintained based on elapsed time, not duration of use, due to factors such as this. The author's vehicle is a prime sludge candidate, although not as bad as people who go years w/o changes. Loss of viscosity is a wholly separate form of degradation which along with accumulated Ph changes is responsible for the "every N miles" recommendation.
  - King-Aaron 9y ago
    Spot on
miahi 9y ago
I always wondered how this oil-change scam still continues in the US. Modern cars with synthetic oils don't need an oil change every 3-4 months or 3000 miles. I always changed the oil according to the (European or Japanese) manufacturer's schedule (once a year / every 10-15000km) and had no issues with the cars (even >10 years old cars).
- alkonaut 9y ago
  Is there a difference though? If you see my other reply to the parent, I posted the US oil change schedule for a european car. It seems to be in line with what I experience in europe . Is it a difference between european and US made cars?
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    I know nothing on the matter, but it seems to me that it's a cultural difference. Americans are just more used to changing the oil often, so oil companies can sell them more oil even if they don't need it.
    - alkonaut 9y ago
      Found this http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/24/oil-change-intervals/ http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/24/oil-change-intervals/ "For years the accepted oil change interval (as per carmakers) had been every 3 months or 3000 miles, whichever comes first. And why was that? It was because oils of yesterday broke down when left in the crankcase environment for longer than the prescribed interval. The combination of heat, friction, and the oil oxidizing over time resulted in an unholy clothing of the engine's internal parts called sludge." That's an absolutely insane number, and I have never heard of that (I have had cars for 20 years that always were 10k to 15k km intervals, and simply done on a yearly or 18 months service).
      - bluGill 9y ago
        I have a tractor from 1939. The owners manual states that modern oils are much better than old oils and as a result practices of years past do not apply. (I don't recall the exact wording) If you ask collectors today there is a big debate on if it is safe to use modern detergent oils in those old tractors.
captainmuon 9y ago
It's funny how attitudes towards oil change are different in different countries. In Germany, I would never go to the garage just for an oil change. We do an oil change either at the scheduled inspection, or when we're at the garage anyway (for winter tires) and the mechanic says it's time :-) which is about once a year. My last car was a bit of a beater, and we did the oil change more frequently. Reason was that it had a problem with the transmission (manual, as most cars here), and from time to time there would be little metal shavings in the oil! But apparantly this is less horrible than it sounds, and somewhat normal for old cars. There is even a little magnet in the oil vessel to collect the shavings. After a combination of learning this, and having lived in the states for a couple of years, I insisted on changing the oil more regularly.
- jaclaz 9y ago
  Well, I had a German car (diesel engine) for 12 years and changed oil according to the board computer, it came out roughly on average around 32,000 km, i.e. a little bit more than 1 year (sold it with 300,000 km after 12 years). But the oil of a manual transmission (and as well that of an automatic one) is normally separated from the engine oil, do I read it correctly that you had a car with those in common? All cars have one or more magnets (for ferrous shavings)it is perfectly normal, but of course they are pretty much ineffective for other metals, and more generally other possible contaminants.
erpellan 9y ago
Changing the oil that frequently probably won't hurt but in a modern car with synthetic oil it's entirely unnecessary.
alkonaut 9y ago
You must have missed that he drives 2000 not 20000km per year. He says he changes oil around every year, so every 2000km (1200 miles). If he changed every 6 months, he'd be changing every 1000km. That's insane! I don't even refuel every 1000km! Example oil change schedule for a modern car (Taken from Audi Q7 '09 service manual): 8.000km, 25.000km, 40.000km, 55.000km... So ~15.000km between changes - or 7.5 years if you drive 2.000km per year. Now - obviously you wouldn't go 7 years without an oil and filter change but you should be completely fine changing every 1-2 years on a car that is driven so little (It's the aging of the oil that's the problem, not the distance driven)
- woliveirajr 9y ago
  Refuel every 1000km... I envy you. Could you share some details, as it made me curious ?
  - iarenaza 9y ago
    Don't know the specifics of the Audi Q7 of the OP, but my Mercedes A 180 CDI 2012 model (Diesel engine) averages 53 mpg (4.4 l/100Km) for my conmute trip (35 KM total, including ~8 KM of mountain road, with a 300m elevation change). Given that my A180 has a 50 liter (13.21 US gallons) fuel tank according to the manufacturer, that means I could make up to ~1,100 Km with a single tank. In practice I refuel before that, but routinely make ~900 Km between refuels.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    Audi A6 diesel (yes very much a dirty VW/Audi diesel-gate diesel, although supposedly "fixed" now). It does 40-45 mpg US (5.5-6L/100km) and the tank is just bottomless (17 gallons/65L or something?) > I envy you. Still envy me when I say a full tank is $100? :)
    - woliveirajr 9y ago
      :) I'd spend about $130 or more for the same 1000km.
coldtea 9y ago
>That poor valvetrain will be full of gummy carbon deposits. RIP whoever buys the car second-hand. Or actually, the car will be perfectly fine. Nobody changes their cars every 3-4 months in this here parts, and the sky hasn't fallen.
0xfeba 9y ago
With modern cars once a year is fine with synthetic oil, if not driven enough to hit the mileage threshold.
mcculley 9y ago
This is one of the most common mesofacts I run across. It's a typical example of something that has changed, but was drilled into people's brains as important a long time ago.
jstanley 9y ago
Almost no car dies because the engine is worn out due to infrequent oil changes, unless the owner just doesn't change the oil at all. Cars usually get scrapped for some problem that is uneconomical to fix due to the age of the car, long before the engine is worn out.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Anecdotally, my Camry had 3 engines before it was involved in an accident well north of 200,000 miles.

rypskar 9y ago

How would changing oil every 2 000 km be a problem? Modern oil should last 10x that long without any problem. I am used to having recommendations for changing oil once a year or every 15k km depending on what comes first. I remember recommendations to change 2 times a year 15-20 years ago because it back then was more normal to have different viscosity in summer and winter

LoSboccacc 9y ago
Depends on oil. Many cars still run on semi-synth and those require the 15k/1yr routine, full synth can use longer kms and two years, or every year if you do under 5kkm/year
jhayward 9y ago
The sticky sludge that GP refers to is for the most part an emulsion of water, produced by combustion and/or from ambient humidity, and oil. If an engine is not run frequently or is used only for short intervals the water isn't driven off by engine heat. Engines that aren't run much must be maintained based on elapsed time, not duration of use, due to factors such as this. The author's vehicle is a prime sludge candidate, although not as bad as people who go years w/o changes. Loss of viscosity is a wholly separate form of degradation which along with accumulated Ph changes is responsible for the "every N miles" recommendation.
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  Spot on

miahi 9y ago

I always wondered how this oil-change scam still continues in the US. Modern cars with synthetic oils don't need an oil change every 3-4 months or 3000 miles. I always changed the oil according to the (European or Japanese) manufacturer's schedule (once a year / every 10-15000km) and had no issues with the cars (even >10 years old cars).

alkonaut 9y ago
Is there a difference though? If you see my other reply to the parent, I posted the US oil change schedule for a european car. It seems to be in line with what I experience in europe . Is it a difference between european and US made cars?
- StavrosK 9y ago
  I know nothing on the matter, but it seems to me that it's a cultural difference. Americans are just more used to changing the oil often, so oil companies can sell them more oil even if they don't need it.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    Found this http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/24/oil-change-intervals/ http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/24/oil-change-intervals/ "For years the accepted oil change interval (as per carmakers) had been every 3 months or 3000 miles, whichever comes first. And why was that? It was because oils of yesterday broke down when left in the crankcase environment for longer than the prescribed interval. The combination of heat, friction, and the oil oxidizing over time resulted in an unholy clothing of the engine's internal parts called sludge." That's an absolutely insane number, and I have never heard of that (I have had cars for 20 years that always were 10k to 15k km intervals, and simply done on a yearly or 18 months service).
    - bluGill 9y ago
      I have a tractor from 1939. The owners manual states that modern oils are much better than old oils and as a result practices of years past do not apply. (I don't recall the exact wording) If you ask collectors today there is a big debate on if it is safe to use modern detergent oils in those old tractors.

captainmuon 9y ago

It's funny how attitudes towards oil change are different in different countries. In Germany, I would never go to the garage just for an oil change. We do an oil change either at the scheduled inspection, or when we're at the garage anyway (for winter tires) and the mechanic says it's time :-) which is about once a year. My last car was a bit of a beater, and we did the oil change more frequently. Reason was that it had a problem with the transmission (manual, as most cars here), and from time to time there would be little metal shavings in the oil! But apparantly this is less horrible than it sounds, and somewhat normal for old cars. There is even a little magnet in the oil vessel to collect the shavings. After a combination of learning this, and having lived in the states for a couple of years, I insisted on changing the oil more regularly.

jaclaz 9y ago
Well, I had a German car (diesel engine) for 12 years and changed oil according to the board computer, it came out roughly on average around 32,000 km, i.e. a little bit more than 1 year (sold it with 300,000 km after 12 years). But the oil of a manual transmission (and as well that of an automatic one) is normally separated from the engine oil, do I read it correctly that you had a car with those in common? All cars have one or more magnets (for ferrous shavings)it is perfectly normal, but of course they are pretty much ineffective for other metals, and more generally other possible contaminants.

erpellan 9y ago

Changing the oil that frequently probably won't hurt but in a modern car with synthetic oil it's entirely unnecessary.

alkonaut 9y ago

You must have missed that he drives 2000 not 20000km per year. He says he changes oil around every year, so every 2000km (1200 miles). If he changed every 6 months, he'd be changing every 1000km. That's insane! I don't even refuel every 1000km! Example oil change schedule for a modern car (Taken from Audi Q7 '09 service manual): 8.000km, 25.000km, 40.000km, 55.000km... So ~15.000km between changes - or 7.5 years if you drive 2.000km per year. Now - obviously you wouldn't go 7 years without an oil and filter change but you should be completely fine changing every 1-2 years on a car that is driven so little (It's the aging of the oil that's the problem, not the distance driven)

woliveirajr 9y ago
Refuel every 1000km... I envy you. Could you share some details, as it made me curious ?
- iarenaza 9y ago
  Don't know the specifics of the Audi Q7 of the OP, but my Mercedes A 180 CDI 2012 model (Diesel engine) averages 53 mpg (4.4 l/100Km) for my conmute trip (35 KM total, including ~8 KM of mountain road, with a 300m elevation change). Given that my A180 has a 50 liter (13.21 US gallons) fuel tank according to the manufacturer, that means I could make up to ~1,100 Km with a single tank. In practice I refuel before that, but routinely make ~900 Km between refuels.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  Audi A6 diesel (yes very much a dirty VW/Audi diesel-gate diesel, although supposedly "fixed" now). It does 40-45 mpg US (5.5-6L/100km) and the tank is just bottomless (17 gallons/65L or something?) > I envy you. Still envy me when I say a full tank is $100? :)
  - woliveirajr 9y ago
    :) I'd spend about $130 or more for the same 1000km.

coldtea 9y ago

>That poor valvetrain will be full of gummy carbon deposits. RIP whoever buys the car second-hand. Or actually, the car will be perfectly fine. Nobody changes their cars every 3-4 months in this here parts, and the sky hasn't fallen.

0xfeba 9y ago

With modern cars once a year is fine with synthetic oil, if not driven enough to hit the mileage threshold.

mcculley 9y ago

This is one of the most common mesofacts I run across. It's a typical example of something that has changed, but was drilled into people's brains as important a long time ago.

jstanley 9y ago

Almost no car dies because the engine is worn out due to infrequent oil changes, unless the owner just doesn't change the oil at all. Cars usually get scrapped for some problem that is uneconomical to fix due to the age of the car, long before the engine is worn out.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Anecdotally, my Camry had 3 engines before it was involved in an accident well north of 200,000 miles.