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One other thing I noticed is that every time there is a post about her here, everyone calls her Marissa, or Marissa Mayer, or Ms. Mayer (seriously!)... never Ma
by mrspeaker 9y ago
One other thing I noticed is that every time there is a post about her here, everyone calls her Marissa, or Marissa Mayer, or Ms. Mayer (seriously!)... never Mayer. I might be "attributing to malice" but dudes never get called "first name", only "last name".
It might just be the way it is in the US, but I can't help read it as a way to depower someone. I dunno if "depower" is the right term, but it feels something like that.
Again, that might just be a cultural thing that I'm not aware of.
- baitbiter 9y agoNonsense....Several men are called by first names. You must be a feminist
- kyrre 9y agothis is demonstrably false just by looking at the comments submitted prior to your own. why did you even write this?
- alistairSH 9y agoAt this time, there are 28 instances of Marissa, 1 instance of Marissa Meyer, and 3 instances of Meyer.
- smackmybishop 9y agoHow many if you spell it right?
- skinnymuch 9y agoSomeone could say you have sexist intentions for misspelling her last name. And that would be silly.
- sethrin 9y agoI think it's something we inherited from the Brits. I don't believe it would be 'proper' to call a woman by her (unadorned) family name. But generally yes, it's a way to disempower women built into our language.
- thiht 9y agoHow is being called by your first name, your last name, or your full name more disempowering than being called by your last name only? Care to explain?
- sethrin 9y agoI'm really not the person to talk about styles of address, current or historical. Referring to someone solely by their surname is typically a male-only thing as far as I am aware. I believe that it's especially prevalent in english schools. Women might technically not have an independent right to their names as they would take up their husband's name upon marriage. Being called by one's first name is familiar and in the context of a public figure demeaning. Consider the effect when someone refers to Obama or Trump -- no one needs to disambiguate who these names refer to. We refer to Marissa Mayer because she's not notable enough to simply call her Mayer. That would be my uninformed take on things, at any rate.
- alistairSH 9y agoYou're correct - it's a sexist thing. I'm not sure malice is intended, but that doesn't make it fair or right.
- Grustaf 9y agoWhy is it worse to be called [title] [lastname] than just [lastname]? Isn't it just different?
- alistairSH 9y agoI'm not sure - I was agreeing with the use of "Marissa" over the forms that include her surname (Meyer, Ms. Meyer, Marissa Meyer).
- thiht 9y agoElon Musk is frequently called Elon. I guess it's disempowering to, according to your logic. Or maybe it's just because saying "Elon" or "Marissa" is enough to know whom we're talking about
- justabystander 9y ago> but dudes never get called "first name", only "last name". Mayer is a really common name. The only way to distinguish her from the 15 Mayers I know is by full name. But in a conversation about her, I'll use whatever's shorter. But let's also address the partial vs full name argument that commonly comes up. I hear that argument a lot. Warren Buffett is a good example. Nearly every time he's mentioned, it's by full name unless you're already talking about investment. Using his full name adds a bit of gravitas. Partial name usage over full name is usually indicative of a few things: 1. Familiarity: The speaker feels familiar with the person - either through personal contact, proximity or extensive exposure. 2. Uniqueness within context: There's only one person with that last name that people would think of when you mention the name. If you're talking about operating systems, saying Gates or Torvalds is often enough to understand. And if you're on stage sweating and awkwardly chanting at a tech conference, people will understand that you're "pulling a Ballmer". 3. Brevity: If you talk about a person long enough in a monologue or discourse, or over a long period of time you'll get tired of mentioning their full name. Last name is usually preferred culturally unless there's a chance of confusion with another person. 4. Personal preference: Sometimes some names roll off the tongue better than others. If a speaker finds a name hard to pronounce or spell, they might pick another. 5. Cultural unfamiliarity: Nadella was easier for me to remember by his last name than his first name "Satya". 6. Rhetoric: You might be trying to appeal to a well-known authority by their most common reference to add panache (e.g. "Gandhi" vs "Warren Buffet"). And this reference can depend on whether you're trying to put a positive spin vs. a negative one. "Barack Obama" vs "Obama" is a good example, with the first/last combo being used more frequently by supporters and just the last name (or the first/middle/last combo) used by detractors. On the other hand, long names might be preferred due to alliteration or rhyming ("Marissa Mayer" and "Rami Rahim" just flow really well), possible confusion with regular nouns ("Elon Musk", "Steve Jobs"), or that's how they were introduced ("Tim Cook"). Finally, insiders (employees and/or industry partners) will refer to a person differently than outsiders. So, no, it's not about sex. Sex might be a contributing factor to familiarity or rhetoric depending on the person. But there are plenty of famous men that are referred to by their full name with respect (Buffet) or scorn (Ballmer).
- alistairSH 9y agoSex might be a contributing factor to familiarity or rhetoric depending on the person. This. As I noted in a sibling, at the time I first responded to the comment, the use of just "Marissa" far outweighs the use of any form that includes her surname. What are the chances the HN user-base is actually more familiar with Meyer? Sure, she came out of the SV world, but I don't see Musk referred to as "Elon" much on HN.
- aaron-lebo 9y agoYou only gotta ctrl-f to see that's not true. You can also see that male CEOs are referred to in multiple ways throughout the thread. Your post is an interesting lesson in confirmation bias.
- thiht 9y agoElon Musk is frequently called "Elon" Steve Jobs is never called "Jobs" Bill Gates is rarely if ever called "Gates" You're trying to make a point out of nothing. Some names are simply more prone to be called using the first name, the last name only, or both, because it might just "sound" better or be sufficiently recognizable. Of course no one would call Steve Jobs "teve" since it's such a common name. "Marissa" and "Elon" are more rare and directly identify the people they refer to
- ClassyJacket 9y agoI noticed the same thing with the US presidential election. He's Trump, but for some reason she's just Hillary.
- sib 9y agoWell, there is the difference between this (Trump): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Trump_2016.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Trump_20... and this ("Hillary"): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Hillary_for_America_2016_Logo.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Hillary_...
- underwater 9y agoHillary was seen as a puppet for Bill. Makes sense to downplay the last name.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- audeyisaacs 9y agoThat was the choice of their respective campaigns, not something that happened organically.
- needlessly 9y agopeople frequently refer to Trump as "The Donald". Hillary is a different case because her husband Bill was president, so most people associate Clinton with Bill.
- skinnymuch 9y agoI think I've seen Microsoft and Google CEOs just called by Satya and Sundar before. Makes sense. Their names are super rare in the West. Marissa is not common too. As the other comment said same with Elon. It feels natural to just say Elon.