6 ms·

Can you? Microsoft Antitrust nightmare that probably set them back 5 years. Google for invading our privacy, they are still fighting big important battles in E

by m12r 9y ago

Can you? Microsoft Antitrust nightmare that probably set them back 5 years. Google for invading our privacy, they are still fighting big important battles in Europe. Facebook for similar privacy invasion, the whole beacon debacle. There are a lot of things that they probably did wrong, but not to the extend that the press is picturing it. Agreed 100% w/ dvt.

burkaman 9y ago
I could be missing some shady history, but off the top of my head how about Square? Edit: Dropbox, Craigslist, GitHub, PayPal, Instagram, Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter Anyone feel free to jump in if I'm ignoring any exploitation or shadiness. Bad examples: Spotify and Snapchat.
- dnr 9y ago
  A few seconds on google: http://gizmodo.com/early-spotify-was-built-on-pirated-mp3-files-new-book-1795109991 http://gizmodo.com/early-spotify-was-built-on-pirated-mp3-fi... http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/05/09/spotify-illegal-mp3s-investigator/ http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/05/09/spotify-illegal-m...
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Thanks. This seems unconfirmed but pretty believable, so strike Spotify off my list.
- dvt 9y ago
  Snapchat? The early version of the app was literally only used by sexting teenagers in Orange County high schools.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Reasonable point.
  - kunaalarya 9y ago
    No. That's what out of touch adults in tech thought.
- bjl 9y ago
  SpaceX and Tesla both have a long history of extremely shady labor practices.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Can't edit my comment anymore, but good point.
- malandrew 9y ago
  Craigslist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc. Github: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Departure_of_Tom_Preston-Werner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Departure_of_Tom_Presto... Paypal: https://www.google.com/search?q=paypal+scandal&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS743US743&oq=paypal+scandal+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4292j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=paypal+scandal&rlz=1C5CHFA_e... Twitter: https://www.google.com/search?q=twitter+harassment+problem&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS743US743&oq=twitter+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j69i59j69i60j69i65.1590j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=twitter+harassment+problem&r... Square: http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-square-coo-resigned-after-sexual-harassment-claim-rabois-denies-allegations-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-square-coo-resigned-after... So your list has dwindled to just Dropbox and Instagram.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Craigslist: That lawsuit came well over a decade after it launched, so that's not an example of something startups are forced to do to succeed. Github: The point I'm arguing against is the idea that startups have to use exploitative and legally questionably business practices to succeed. This Github thing sucks, but it doesn't really have anything to do with business practices, and obviously nobody is arguing that startup leaders have to to be sexist to succeed. PayPal: That scandal looks like it's related to PayPal Credit, which they acquired a decade after PayPal was founded. Not an example of something startups have to do to succeed. Twitter: This is somewhat debatable, but it's a reasonable point. Maybe Twitter wouldn't have succeeded if it tried to stamp out harassment early on. Square: Similar to Github. This sucks, but it's not really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. It is possible and relatively common for a startup to find massive success without relying on exploitation and potentially illegal business practices.
- elvinyung 9y ago
  I would like to add that Square internally has a very oft-repeated (and somewhat tongue-in-cheek) mantra of "break the rules, not the law", and IMO a pretty strong moral compass in general.

by m12r 9y ago

burkaman 9y ago

I could be missing some shady history, but off the top of my head how about Square? Edit: Dropbox, Craigslist, GitHub, PayPal, Instagram, Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter Anyone feel free to jump in if I'm ignoring any exploitation or shadiness. Bad examples: Spotify and Snapchat.

dnr 9y ago
A few seconds on google: http://gizmodo.com/early-spotify-was-built-on-pirated-mp3-files-new-book-1795109991 http://gizmodo.com/early-spotify-was-built-on-pirated-mp3-fi... http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/05/09/spotify-illegal-mp3s-investigator/ http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/05/09/spotify-illegal-m...
- burkaman 9y ago
  Thanks. This seems unconfirmed but pretty believable, so strike Spotify off my list.
dvt 9y ago
Snapchat? The early version of the app was literally only used by sexting teenagers in Orange County high schools.
- burkaman 9y ago
  Reasonable point.
- kunaalarya 9y ago
  No. That's what out of touch adults in tech thought.
bjl 9y ago
SpaceX and Tesla both have a long history of extremely shady labor practices.
- burkaman 9y ago
  Can't edit my comment anymore, but good point.
malandrew 9y ago
Craigslist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc. Github: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Departure_of_Tom_Preston-Werner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#Departure_of_Tom_Presto... Paypal: https://www.google.com/search?q=paypal+scandal&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS743US743&oq=paypal+scandal+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4292j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=paypal+scandal&rlz=1C5CHFA_e... Twitter: https://www.google.com/search?q=twitter+harassment+problem&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS743US743&oq=twitter+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j69i59j69i60j69i65.1590j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=twitter+harassment+problem&r... Square: http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-square-coo-resigned-after-sexual-harassment-claim-rabois-denies-allegations-2013-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-square-coo-resigned-after... So your list has dwindled to just Dropbox and Instagram.
- burkaman 9y ago
  Craigslist: That lawsuit came well over a decade after it launched, so that's not an example of something startups are forced to do to succeed. Github: The point I'm arguing against is the idea that startups have to use exploitative and legally questionably business practices to succeed. This Github thing sucks, but it doesn't really have anything to do with business practices, and obviously nobody is arguing that startup leaders have to to be sexist to succeed. PayPal: That scandal looks like it's related to PayPal Credit, which they acquired a decade after PayPal was founded. Not an example of something startups have to do to succeed. Twitter: This is somewhat debatable, but it's a reasonable point. Maybe Twitter wouldn't have succeeded if it tried to stamp out harassment early on. Square: Similar to Github. This sucks, but it's not really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. It is possible and relatively common for a startup to find massive success without relying on exploitation and potentially illegal business practices.
elvinyung 9y ago
I would like to add that Square internally has a very oft-repeated (and somewhat tongue-in-cheek) mantra of "break the rules, not the law", and IMO a pretty strong moral compass in general.