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Bitcoins have appreciated 10x since MtGox crashed and took mine. Getting back the dollar value the bitcoins had back then would still piss me off.

emodendroket 9y ago
More than getting nothing? The only reason this is even a possibility is the appreciation.
- ne0n 9y ago
  If MtGox only had enough funds to cover 15% of deposits, and they paid back each creditor 15% of their claim a year ago, the creditor could have bought Bitcoin with what was refunded and be in the same situation now. Instead, they seem to be dragging it out. I think most creditors would rather have something last year than nothing right now. Additionally, there's no upside for creditors if Bitcoin becomes $5,000.
  - otoburb 9y ago
    >>Additionally, there's no upside for creditors if Bitcoin becomes $5,000. It's funny you mention this, because from what I can understand of Japanese bankruptcy proceedings[1], any excess assets remaining after paying off creditors would probably be given to the MtGox shareholders, which primarily consists of Mark Karpeles[2] alone. I believe the term surfacing in other circles is "unjust enrichment"[3][4]. [1] I am not a lawyer. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Karpel%C3%A8s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Karpel%C3%A8s [3] http://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/bankruptcy/recovering-through-unjust-enrichment-aka-restitution-21643/ http://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/bankruptcy/recovering-thro... [4] http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/facpub/1/ http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/facpub/1/
    - fjdlwlv 9y ago
      After paying back creditors what they are owed, or after paying back a discounted amount?
      - ne0n 9y ago
        "what they are owed" == fixed rate of $440/BTC.
    - h1d 9y ago
      He showed up on Reddit saying he's finding ways to return the excess back to creditors in case price stays over 100% claims at the time of distribution. https://www.reddit.com/user/MagicalTux/ https://www.reddit.com/user/MagicalTux/
- ggambetta 9y ago
  I prefer getting 1/10th than getting nothing, but the only fair outcome would be getting exactly what I lost. > The only reason this is even a possibility is the appreciation. Sure, but the only reason we're even having this discussion is that MtGox fucked up. That isn't my fault.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    On the other hand, would it have been fair if the value of Bitcoin cratered and then they paid everyone out in the new, lower value?
  - looki 9y ago
    If that were to happen, this hack would be a blessing for many, many people who definitely would not have held on to their bitcoins until this current all-time high price. Not commenting on what is right here, I just thought it's kind of interesting.
  - jikachu2 9y ago
    If you get 1/10th of what you are owed, you will end up far better off than most creditors in bankruptcy cases.
  - gaius 9y ago
    MtGox fucked up Yes they did but to be fair to them they were never a bank or any sort of financial institution. They were "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange". They had wacky side projects like rewriting SSH in PHP. Why did anyone entrust them with real assets?
    - beaconstudios 9y ago
      MagicalTux (Mark Karpeles) actually bought the mtgox.com domain off of the previous owner, IIRC. Under his ownership it was never about MTG.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > I prefer getting 1/10th than getting nothing, but the only fair outcome would be getting exactly what I lost. Bankruptcy means that the outcome of “all creditors getting what they were owed” is off the table. What is at issue is their fair disposition of what is left which is known to be inadequate to the ideal. > Sure, but the only reason we're even having this discussion is that MtGox fucked up. That isn't my fault. The only reason it would matter to you is that you entrusted something to MtGox. That, arguably, is your responsibility.
saurik 9y ago
You lost a certain amount of value at that time. You could have had that value in any storage format. It isn't like Bitcoin was a rare irreplaceable work of art: it was a thing you could have bought more of using other dollars, and so the tort against you should be measured in the common unit of value and not exactly what you owned.

emodendroket 9y ago

More than getting nothing? The only reason this is even a possibility is the appreciation.

ne0n 9y ago
If MtGox only had enough funds to cover 15% of deposits, and they paid back each creditor 15% of their claim a year ago, the creditor could have bought Bitcoin with what was refunded and be in the same situation now. Instead, they seem to be dragging it out. I think most creditors would rather have something last year than nothing right now. Additionally, there's no upside for creditors if Bitcoin becomes $5,000.
- otoburb 9y ago
  >>Additionally, there's no upside for creditors if Bitcoin becomes $5,000. It's funny you mention this, because from what I can understand of Japanese bankruptcy proceedings[1], any excess assets remaining after paying off creditors would probably be given to the MtGox shareholders, which primarily consists of Mark Karpeles[2] alone. I believe the term surfacing in other circles is "unjust enrichment"[3][4]. [1] I am not a lawyer. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Karpel%C3%A8s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Karpel%C3%A8s [3] http://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/bankruptcy/recovering-through-unjust-enrichment-aka-restitution-21643/ http://blogs.lawyers.com/attorney/bankruptcy/recovering-thro... [4] http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/facpub/1/ http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/facpub/1/
  - fjdlwlv 9y ago
    After paying back creditors what they are owed, or after paying back a discounted amount?
    - ne0n 9y ago
      "what they are owed" == fixed rate of $440/BTC.
  - h1d 9y ago
    He showed up on Reddit saying he's finding ways to return the excess back to creditors in case price stays over 100% claims at the time of distribution. https://www.reddit.com/user/MagicalTux/ https://www.reddit.com/user/MagicalTux/
ggambetta 9y ago
I prefer getting 1/10th than getting nothing, but the only fair outcome would be getting exactly what I lost. > The only reason this is even a possibility is the appreciation. Sure, but the only reason we're even having this discussion is that MtGox fucked up. That isn't my fault.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  On the other hand, would it have been fair if the value of Bitcoin cratered and then they paid everyone out in the new, lower value?
- looki 9y ago
  If that were to happen, this hack would be a blessing for many, many people who definitely would not have held on to their bitcoins until this current all-time high price. Not commenting on what is right here, I just thought it's kind of interesting.
- jikachu2 9y ago
  If you get 1/10th of what you are owed, you will end up far better off than most creditors in bankruptcy cases.
- gaius 9y ago
  MtGox fucked up Yes they did but to be fair to them they were never a bank or any sort of financial institution. They were "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange". They had wacky side projects like rewriting SSH in PHP. Why did anyone entrust them with real assets?
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    MagicalTux (Mark Karpeles) actually bought the mtgox.com domain off of the previous owner, IIRC. Under his ownership it was never about MTG.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I prefer getting 1/10th than getting nothing, but the only fair outcome would be getting exactly what I lost. Bankruptcy means that the outcome of “all creditors getting what they were owed” is off the table. What is at issue is their fair disposition of what is left which is known to be inadequate to the ideal. > Sure, but the only reason we're even having this discussion is that MtGox fucked up. That isn't my fault. The only reason it would matter to you is that you entrusted something to MtGox. That, arguably, is your responsibility.

saurik 9y ago

You lost a certain amount of value at that time. You could have had that value in any storage format. It isn't like Bitcoin was a rare irreplaceable work of art: it was a thing you could have bought more of using other dollars, and so the tort against you should be measured in the common unit of value and not exactly what you owned.