4 ms·

If someone can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes writing a cover letter for a job they want then I would consider them unqualified. I don't want to work with so

If someone can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes writing a cover letter for a job they want then I would consider them unqualified. I don't want to work with somebody who refuses to put in a bit of effort to get what they want. I spend at least a few hours writing job posts. Why shouldn't I expect the same?

bjt 9y ago
But you don't customize the job post to each applicant, right? So "the same" would be a developer spending a few hours writing a cover letter and resume that are sent to a bunch of potential employers without customization.
- pkaye 9y ago
  It is more common for the applicant to apply for the job so the job post has to be generic. Now if the company is recruiting someone unique they will approach them and tailor the opportunity to that person. Also I don't think one has to spend a few hours to customize the resume. Make one for each industry you are considering and spend 5-10 minutes tweaking it for the employers you really care about.
- nathantotten 9y ago
  We do for the most part. We might hire a number of people from the same position, but we typically write a post for each type of position or team. Even at Microsoft this was often the case - of course there was a generic template, but you would put specifics to the role.
mdavid626 9y ago
I don't understand this. I'm a developer, I create products. I'm not a professional writer. For me this means you value >>presentation<< more than my skills, despite I won't be a professional writer in your company...
- nathantotten 9y ago
  I'm really not talking about something lengthy. But I get 100s of applications for every job post I publish. Most people who apply are frankly not qualified. If you are qualified, write a few sentences. "Hey, I saw your post for [...]. I thought this looked great for me because I have worked on [...] and I am super excited to learn more about [....]". I am not asking for paragraphs, but show me you are interested. I honestly spend hours writing and reviewing the jobs I post and it takes probably 100+ hours total from a team to hire a person. We want to hire you, but you've got to help us. :)
  - mdavid626 9y ago
    I think hiring is completely broken. At least in IT. Developers don't understand HR people, and HR doesn't understand developers. For me "Hey, I saw your post for [...]. I thought this looked great for me because I have worked on [...] and I am super excited to learn more about [....]" means absolutely nothing. Frankly, I do NOT know you or your company and in a job description there is nothing about the team, culture etc. But I have no other option just to make something up, because otherwise no one'll hire me.
    - nathantotten 9y ago
      Where I work, engineers hire engineers. You are right on some level that it is hard to know exactly what a company does, but for many jobs in software that isn't entirely true. Read the companies blog, look at their open source projects, use the product, and most importantly read the job posting. I really don't think you'll have to make something up if you really are a good fit for the role.
      - mdavid626 9y ago
        It's working really well when engineers hire engineers. I've no problem with that. They don't ask questions like "Why do you want to work for us" or "What are your strengths" or "Tell me about a situation where ...". Not every company has a blog, open source projects and many of them have no public products and are privately held. So, I can see the job description and the website. I don't know if you are an HR person or not. No offense. I'm not against them, but have very very very bad experience with them.
tomjen3 9y ago
Op did spend a few hours: he wrote a script. By definition he did what a programmer should do: find a solution that is automizable, then make it work. If that annoys some people, well, that is why you apply to more than one job.
- nathantotten 9y ago
  Good point. And I would seriously consider an applicant that wrote such an application, but better than putting it in his resume would be to write a quick note. "Hey, I've been looking for a new role. As part of my process I wrote this app. See it here and let me know what you think." That would get somebody noticed.

bjt 9y ago

But you don't customize the job post to each applicant, right? So "the same" would be a developer spending a few hours writing a cover letter and resume that are sent to a bunch of potential employers without customization.

pkaye 9y ago
It is more common for the applicant to apply for the job so the job post has to be generic. Now if the company is recruiting someone unique they will approach them and tailor the opportunity to that person. Also I don't think one has to spend a few hours to customize the resume. Make one for each industry you are considering and spend 5-10 minutes tweaking it for the employers you really care about.
nathantotten 9y ago
We do for the most part. We might hire a number of people from the same position, but we typically write a post for each type of position or team. Even at Microsoft this was often the case - of course there was a generic template, but you would put specifics to the role.

mdavid626 9y ago

I don't understand this. I'm a developer, I create products. I'm not a professional writer. For me this means you value >>presentation<< more than my skills, despite I won't be a professional writer in your company...

nathantotten 9y ago
I'm really not talking about something lengthy. But I get 100s of applications for every job post I publish. Most people who apply are frankly not qualified. If you are qualified, write a few sentences. "Hey, I saw your post for [...]. I thought this looked great for me because I have worked on [...] and I am super excited to learn more about [....]". I am not asking for paragraphs, but show me you are interested. I honestly spend hours writing and reviewing the jobs I post and it takes probably 100+ hours total from a team to hire a person. We want to hire you, but you've got to help us. :)
- mdavid626 9y ago
  I think hiring is completely broken. At least in IT. Developers don't understand HR people, and HR doesn't understand developers. For me "Hey, I saw your post for [...]. I thought this looked great for me because I have worked on [...] and I am super excited to learn more about [....]" means absolutely nothing. Frankly, I do NOT know you or your company and in a job description there is nothing about the team, culture etc. But I have no other option just to make something up, because otherwise no one'll hire me.
  - nathantotten 9y ago
    Where I work, engineers hire engineers. You are right on some level that it is hard to know exactly what a company does, but for many jobs in software that isn't entirely true. Read the companies blog, look at their open source projects, use the product, and most importantly read the job posting. I really don't think you'll have to make something up if you really are a good fit for the role.
    - mdavid626 9y ago
      It's working really well when engineers hire engineers. I've no problem with that. They don't ask questions like "Why do you want to work for us" or "What are your strengths" or "Tell me about a situation where ...". Not every company has a blog, open source projects and many of them have no public products and are privately held. So, I can see the job description and the website. I don't know if you are an HR person or not. No offense. I'm not against them, but have very very very bad experience with them.

tomjen3 9y ago

Op did spend a few hours: he wrote a script. By definition he did what a programmer should do: find a solution that is automizable, then make it work. If that annoys some people, well, that is why you apply to more than one job.

nathantotten 9y ago
Good point. And I would seriously consider an applicant that wrote such an application, but better than putting it in his resume would be to write a quick note. "Hey, I've been looking for a new role. As part of my process I wrote this app. See it here and let me know what you think." That would get somebody noticed.