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I don't know who is right or wrong. I am a software developer and familiar with Unix/Linux. I actively try to be well informed about other topics related to thi

by sqeaky 9y ago

I don't know who is right or wrong. I am a software developer and familiar with Unix/Linux. I actively try to be well informed about other topics related to this. When engineering I actively try to remain emotionally dispassionate. I understand what the argument is about and I see how in a technical sense either side could be "correct" here. Despite all that, the level of vitriol and defensiveness you have demonstrated makes me want to agree with everyone else. I am curious what the opinions are of people less informed on this topic and more emotionally in touch. You damage your side of the argument, not with your content, but your portrayal of the content. Some of the things you said have merit, but they are ignored and derided because they are attached to you and you are attached to vitriol and vitriol rightly gets ignored and derided. The best thing you can do for anything resembling your side of the argument is to just back down. If you don't say anything for a day or two it will all just blow over and you can try again later when people are more willing to listen. You can try approaching the conversation like an engineering problem and perhaps see that manners and politeness are to conversation as lubricant is to an engine (or perhaps high clocks speeds to software). You can have a conversation without manners, run an engine without oil or run software on low clocking parts, but it won't turn out as well as it could have.

fredmorcos 9y ago
So it's not what I said it's just how I said it.
- sqeaky 9y ago
  Mostly... But notice how you still post and the downvote brigade still obliterates your score. You can't say anything and get upvotes because you have angered so many with how you said some things.
  - fredmorcos 9y ago
    > But notice how you still post and the downvote brigade still obliterates your score. And even posts with actual data are being downvoted :) This only goes to show just how subjective and emotional this community has become, where everyone just wants to share "but in my opinion" or "but in my experience" without having to back up any of their arguments, or even have any of their arguments or claims challenged and questioned and called out. This essentially turns concrete, testable claims into happy dreaming about technology. And that's really what this has become: everyone sharing their idea of what something should be and presenting it as fact. I guess I've made a very good point today!
    - eropple 9y ago
      It has literally nothing to do with people saying "in my experience" or even you choosing to challenge an argument. It has to do with you being a jerk about it. The people you interact with through your keyboard are real and how you treat them matters. The only point you've made today is that self-righteousness exists and exhibits itself as rudeness. And you know it's rude; you're actively trying to downplay it by calling how you've chosen to approach other people as "harsh". You should use this awareness to be better, not to continue to be unkind. Because, ultimately, this is a you problem.
    - sqeaky 9y ago
      > And even posts with actual data are being downvoted Of course they are, its not your data that people don't like. They aren't downvoting the post, they are downvoting you. People don't like you, and anything you say will be downvoted at present. Remove yourself or mod might. You have made no points today, unless you are trolling then you have angered many and that is your measure of success. I will not respond to you further.
      - fredmorcos 9y ago
        > Of course they are, its not your data that people don't like. They aren't downvoting the post, they are downvoting you. Exactly my point. > You have made no points today Sure I did. One of them is right in your comment :)
        sqeaky 9y ago
        You are a troll and deserve all the downvotes.
- sanderjd 9y ago
  I think "you don't know what you're talking about" is substantively different than "in my experience, you are wrong about this". Firstly, lots of people who do know what they're talking about are wrong about lots of things. Making it about the person instead of about the thing was (for me) the problem with your comment. Also, "in my experience" is not just polite fluff. I have come across diminishingly few things in computing that are not dependent on circumstances. The interesting version of this conversation would have been you saying, "no that sounds wrong to me", followed by a discussion of (to the best of your memories) what kind of hardware, drivers, kernel and compiler versions, etc. you were each using. Maybe you would have convinced me that there is no combination of those things for which the original commenter's experience could possibly have been right. But your throwaway ad hominem comment didn't, and couldn't ever, accomplish that.

by sqeaky 9y ago

fredmorcos 9y ago

So it's not what I said it's just how I said it.

sqeaky 9y ago
Mostly... But notice how you still post and the downvote brigade still obliterates your score. You can't say anything and get upvotes because you have angered so many with how you said some things.
- fredmorcos 9y ago
  > But notice how you still post and the downvote brigade still obliterates your score. And even posts with actual data are being downvoted :) This only goes to show just how subjective and emotional this community has become, where everyone just wants to share "but in my opinion" or "but in my experience" without having to back up any of their arguments, or even have any of their arguments or claims challenged and questioned and called out. This essentially turns concrete, testable claims into happy dreaming about technology. And that's really what this has become: everyone sharing their idea of what something should be and presenting it as fact. I guess I've made a very good point today!
  - eropple 9y ago
    It has literally nothing to do with people saying "in my experience" or even you choosing to challenge an argument. It has to do with you being a jerk about it. The people you interact with through your keyboard are real and how you treat them matters. The only point you've made today is that self-righteousness exists and exhibits itself as rudeness. And you know it's rude; you're actively trying to downplay it by calling how you've chosen to approach other people as "harsh". You should use this awareness to be better, not to continue to be unkind. Because, ultimately, this is a you problem.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    > And even posts with actual data are being downvoted Of course they are, its not your data that people don't like. They aren't downvoting the post, they are downvoting you. People don't like you, and anything you say will be downvoted at present. Remove yourself or mod might. You have made no points today, unless you are trolling then you have angered many and that is your measure of success. I will not respond to you further.
    - fredmorcos 9y ago
      > Of course they are, its not your data that people don't like. They aren't downvoting the post, they are downvoting you. Exactly my point. > You have made no points today Sure I did. One of them is right in your comment :)
      - sqeaky 9y ago
        You are a troll and deserve all the downvotes.
sanderjd 9y ago
I think "you don't know what you're talking about" is substantively different than "in my experience, you are wrong about this". Firstly, lots of people who do know what they're talking about are wrong about lots of things. Making it about the person instead of about the thing was (for me) the problem with your comment. Also, "in my experience" is not just polite fluff. I have come across diminishingly few things in computing that are not dependent on circumstances. The interesting version of this conversation would have been you saying, "no that sounds wrong to me", followed by a discussion of (to the best of your memories) what kind of hardware, drivers, kernel and compiler versions, etc. you were each using. Maybe you would have convinced me that there is no combination of those things for which the original commenter's experience could possibly have been right. But your throwaway ad hominem comment didn't, and couldn't ever, accomplish that.