5 ms·

It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies. In the case of Steam, it seems like what you should do is have the credit card

It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies. In the case of Steam, it seems like what you should do is have the credit card company charge back ALL the purchases you made if they ban your account.

eli 9y ago
I don't think that's a good idea, but anyway there are time limits. You can chargeback something more than a few months old.
- sigstoat 9y ago
  i assume you meant to say "you can't chargeback..." since you're pointing out there are time limits. in my experience the time limits are related to delivery of the service. for instance, you pay with credit card for a service happening 9 months in the future. if the appointed day arrives, and the service is not performed, there won't be a problem getting a charge back even though the actual charge was 9 months old.
  - aoeusnth1 9y ago
    And in the case of steam, the "time of service" is at all points in the future?
    - sigstoat 9y ago
      i'd certainly make that argument to my credit card company if steam cut me off completely. i don't think it's crazy for a software company to want to claim that i'm leasing software from them after a one-time payment, but if that's the case, i also feel like i forever have grounds for the return of my money if they ever break the lease.
Shivetya 9y ago
Steam has a litany of disclaimers to block refunds. Even games dropped by developers don't matter to Steam. I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund. I really dislike digital distribution of games and software on this point. While some Steam games I can run offline I am not sure if all of them can be. Plus how do I reinstall? It is a sad state of affairs when being a buyer on ebay is safer than buying from Steam
- teh_klev 9y ago
  > I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund. Cough, ahem, No Man's Sky... According to Steam I'd played around 40 hours, but in reality most likely <10 hours active and stupidly left the game idling a couple of nights which racked up the hours. I tried to get a refund from Steam and was refused, I then tried a charge back from PayPal and Steam stepped in and more or less told me that if I continue down this road I'll be locked out of all my games. A few lessons learned: 1. Don't pre-purchase games 2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews 3. Avoid Steam/digital distributions for higher value games. This has certainly soured me from buying anything costing more than a few quid on Steam.
  - slantyyz 9y ago
    >> 1. Don't pre-purchase games >> 2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews I know it's hard to do if everyone you know's playing the latest hotness, but if you can wait a few months, you can usually get the game heavily discounted in one of Steam's (or Humble, Green Man or other Steam key sellers) quarterly sales. I used to buy my games on release date at or near full price, but these days I try very hard to wait as long as I can for them to get heavily discounted. When you pay much less than full price, the sting is lessened if you chalk up too many hours to get a refund.
    - Delameko 9y ago
      Yeah, this is the same with me. The last game I bought at full price was watch_dogs, and I felt ripped off that most of the season pass content was the same copy and paste missions as the rest of the game, with only one proper DLC. Last month I bought Dishonored 2 for £10 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided for £8, roughly six months after release (when they were £60).
    - teh_klev 9y ago
      > but if you can wait a few months & > playing the latest hotness To be honest NMS is the only game I've paid for prior to the release date, and even then I only paid for it a week beforehand. I'm not a huge gamer (with the exception of dipping into Eve Online no and then). But NMS was hugely attractive to me, less so from the gamer/press hype, but from all the things Sean had talked about and demo'd. That'll learn me.
timsayshey 9y ago
This is exactly why when a new game comes out, I check to see if it is available on GOG.com before checking Steam. Thanks to GOG's DRM-Free policy, you can download and store the game installer. Not all digital distribution is bad.
- hellbanner 9y ago
  Try http://itch.io http://itch.io , too (Disclaimer: my company has uploaded games here). It's incredibly developer friendly and they host game jams constantly http://itch.io/jams http://itch.io/jams
- vhhhggv 9y ago
  And pirate it, let's not forget this. I'm not fond of those who pretend DRM-free games are some kind of free speech issue. Let's be real, DRM-free means free shit. Steam is better for game makers.
- Semaphor 9y ago
  FWIW, while it's not as convenient as at Gog, you can still play all your steam games where the publisher/Dev didn't add the drm. Most should then work by copying the installed files
- benologist 9y ago
  GOG's fake-refund policy of "work with support to prove the game opens" is illegal in Australia and probably most countries with consumer protection laws. They're no better at respecting their customers than Valve, they just misrepresent it better.
  - Thimothy 9y ago
    These days you can finish most modern AAA games in the time countries with decent costumer laws let you refund a product. Not to say that with GoG DRM-free policy, you could buy the game, download it, and ask for a refund in no-time. I find GoGs policy a nice middle ground to Steam, on one side, and ruining their business as you suggest, on the other.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies Hit them where it hurts: state regulators. If you're in New York, for example, complain to the Department of Financial Services (DFS) [1]. They're hard hitting and know what they're doing. (I think California's analog is the California Department of Business Oversight (DBO), though it isn't, to my recollection, as intimidating as DFS.) [1] http://www.dfs.ny.gov http://www.dfs.ny.gov
- creepydata 9y ago
  There's also the CPFB for those in the US https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
- owenversteeg 9y ago
  That's great, thanks. I don't live in New York though, and I'd bet most people reading this don't. I wonder what the equivalent local regulators are. Someone should make a list of all local regulatory agencies by location. List all places hat deal with average joes as well as how likely they are to respond to you and how often they win against companies.
mnm1 9y ago
With Amex, at least, you can only do chargebacks for purchases in the last six months. Probably similar for others. Just something to be aware of. Even if you have indisputable proof of theft or fraud or whatever.

eli 9y ago

I don't think that's a good idea, but anyway there are time limits. You can chargeback something more than a few months old.

sigstoat 9y ago
i assume you meant to say "you can't chargeback..." since you're pointing out there are time limits. in my experience the time limits are related to delivery of the service. for instance, you pay with credit card for a service happening 9 months in the future. if the appointed day arrives, and the service is not performed, there won't be a problem getting a charge back even though the actual charge was 9 months old.
- aoeusnth1 9y ago
  And in the case of steam, the "time of service" is at all points in the future?
  - sigstoat 9y ago
    i'd certainly make that argument to my credit card company if steam cut me off completely. i don't think it's crazy for a software company to want to claim that i'm leasing software from them after a one-time payment, but if that's the case, i also feel like i forever have grounds for the return of my money if they ever break the lease.

Shivetya 9y ago

Steam has a litany of disclaimers to block refunds. Even games dropped by developers don't matter to Steam. I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund. I really dislike digital distribution of games and software on this point. While some Steam games I can run offline I am not sure if all of them can be. Plus how do I reinstall? It is a sad state of affairs when being a buyer on ebay is safer than buying from Steam

teh_klev 9y ago
> I had a few hours registered to a game I could never get to work beyond a few turns but since I "played" it I was not entitled to a refund. Cough, ahem, No Man's Sky... According to Steam I'd played around 40 hours, but in reality most likely <10 hours active and stupidly left the game idling a couple of nights which racked up the hours. I tried to get a refund from Steam and was refused, I then tried a charge back from PayPal and Steam stepped in and more or less told me that if I continue down this road I'll be locked out of all my games. A few lessons learned: 1. Don't pre-purchase games 2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews 3. Avoid Steam/digital distributions for higher value games. This has certainly soured me from buying anything costing more than a few quid on Steam.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  >> 1. Don't pre-purchase games >> 2. Wait a couple of weeks for real gamer reviews I know it's hard to do if everyone you know's playing the latest hotness, but if you can wait a few months, you can usually get the game heavily discounted in one of Steam's (or Humble, Green Man or other Steam key sellers) quarterly sales. I used to buy my games on release date at or near full price, but these days I try very hard to wait as long as I can for them to get heavily discounted. When you pay much less than full price, the sting is lessened if you chalk up too many hours to get a refund.
  - Delameko 9y ago
    Yeah, this is the same with me. The last game I bought at full price was watch_dogs, and I felt ripped off that most of the season pass content was the same copy and paste missions as the rest of the game, with only one proper DLC. Last month I bought Dishonored 2 for £10 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided for £8, roughly six months after release (when they were £60).
  - teh_klev 9y ago
    > but if you can wait a few months & > playing the latest hotness To be honest NMS is the only game I've paid for prior to the release date, and even then I only paid for it a week beforehand. I'm not a huge gamer (with the exception of dipping into Eve Online no and then). But NMS was hugely attractive to me, less so from the gamer/press hype, but from all the things Sean had talked about and demo'd. That'll learn me.

timsayshey 9y ago

This is exactly why when a new game comes out, I check to see if it is available on GOG.com before checking Steam. Thanks to GOG's DRM-Free policy, you can download and store the game installer. Not all digital distribution is bad.

hellbanner 9y ago
Try http://itch.io http://itch.io , too (Disclaimer: my company has uploaded games here). It's incredibly developer friendly and they host game jams constantly http://itch.io/jams http://itch.io/jams
vhhhggv 9y ago
And pirate it, let's not forget this. I'm not fond of those who pretend DRM-free games are some kind of free speech issue. Let's be real, DRM-free means free shit. Steam is better for game makers.
Semaphor 9y ago
FWIW, while it's not as convenient as at Gog, you can still play all your steam games where the publisher/Dev didn't add the drm. Most should then work by copying the installed files
benologist 9y ago
GOG's fake-refund policy of "work with support to prove the game opens" is illegal in Australia and probably most countries with consumer protection laws. They're no better at respecting their customers than Valve, they just misrepresent it better.
- Thimothy 9y ago
  These days you can finish most modern AAA games in the time countries with decent costumer laws let you refund a product. Not to say that with GoG DRM-free policy, you could buy the game, download it, and ask for a refund in no-time. I find GoGs policy a nice middle ground to Steam, on one side, and ruining their business as you suggest, on the other.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> It seems like this behavior should also be reported to the credit card companies Hit them where it hurts: state regulators. If you're in New York, for example, complain to the Department of Financial Services (DFS) [1]. They're hard hitting and know what they're doing. (I think California's analog is the California Department of Business Oversight (DBO), though it isn't, to my recollection, as intimidating as DFS.) [1] http://www.dfs.ny.gov http://www.dfs.ny.gov

creepydata 9y ago
There's also the CPFB for those in the US https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
owenversteeg 9y ago
That's great, thanks. I don't live in New York though, and I'd bet most people reading this don't. I wonder what the equivalent local regulators are. Someone should make a list of all local regulatory agencies by location. List all places hat deal with average joes as well as how likely they are to respond to you and how often they win against companies.

mnm1 9y ago

With Amex, at least, you can only do chargebacks for purchases in the last six months. Probably similar for others. Just something to be aware of. Even if you have indisputable proof of theft or fraud or whatever.