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I have noticed that with any type of money processing service (stock broker, bank, ..), whenever any irregularity happens, I end up losing money no matter wheth

I have noticed that with any type of money processing service (stock broker, bank, ..), whenever any irregularity happens, I end up losing money no matter whether I was at fault. The asymmetry between me as a customer and a large organisation with a faceless customer service is just so big that complaints take too much effort to reach someone that could do something about it (if they were willing to own up to problems, which they usually are not). Having the legal right to get any fee refunded and getting it are just so far removed that I would wager all money handling services make non-trivial amounts of profits from unjust fees because they can exploit this asymmetry. Sadly, for me as an individual the right decision is almost always to let it go because my time is more expensive.

mi100hael 9y ago
The one company that hasn't totally sucked for me in this regard is AmEx. Every time I've called I've gotten a native English speaker located in the US who actually has the power to reverse charges within a matter of minutes.
- kingnothing 9y ago
  Counterpoint: I haven't received a native English speaker in years from Amex. Chase, on the other hand, has always provided support in English and without the need to navigate a phone tree. I'll probably move most of my purchases to them once I spend my stockpile of Amex MR points.
  - Qub3d 9y ago
    Counter-counterpoint: I keep getting random notifications that "my card has been removed from android pay" from Chase and always have to navigate a phone tree. What's this secret shibboleet code[1] you've found? [1]: https://www.xkcd.com/806/ https://www.xkcd.com/806/
    - ubernostrum 9y ago
      Several of Chase's credit cards come with that as an advertised feature. But not all of them, which means that it's not "Chase in general" but "Chase, if you have one of these specific cards with them".
- phil21 9y ago
  This used to be the case - until I talked to them last time. Definitely not a US-based CSR, and completely unwilling to help in a very frustrating situation I had done almost everything right on. I don't charge back often (first time on this card ever, after close to a decade) - so it's not like I have a flag on my account for "shitty customer" or anything. Basically they utterly refused to chargeback, or even block future charges to a specific vendor that had been charging me monthly for a service I could not use due to moving. The vendor said their policy was I had to cancel in person, and refused to do anything else. Amex absolutely did not have my back, and I have one of their higher-tier cards. Absolutely have been looking around at alternatives now though, after basically being told they'll let a vendor continue charging me against my will forever and there was nothing they would do about it. They said take the vendor to court. I ended up canceling the card entirely and having it re-issued, since even changing the number on your card these days isn't enough to stop monthly recurring billing - of course that feature is for your "convenience". All in all it was a pretty horrible experience that they resolved in the favor of a vendor that was quite obviously playing the "make cancelation super hard so we can collect monthly payments from people who continue to put it off" game - Amex literally could not have cared less one of their merchants was essentially engaging in barely-legal consumer fraud. Utterly horrible customer service, and this was via many reps and a couple low-tier CSR managers. It's quite obvious to me why Chase and the like are eating steadily away at the once-stalwart Amex customer base. Prior to that experience I would not have remotely considered a different card due to them always being stellar whenever I needed them, and they usually went above and beyond any expectations I had for customer service. That trust built over the decades with me is now completely gone, and it's obvious they are simply yet another card issuer these days.
  - rtx 9y ago
    I don't see them being at fault here. You willing entered into a contract.
    - lovich 9y ago
      Vendors who allow online or over the phone sign ups, but only in person cancellation don't tend to be relying on the quality of their product or service to keep customers. ISPs are one where if you are not a savvy consumer you wont realize that when they say up to X megabits a second that its not only a different unit from megabytes, but that anything 0 <= (actual service) <= X is considered meeting the terms of the contract. ISPs are also the type of company where you call to cancel the service, as the contract allows because you are not locked in, and instead of letting you cancel they give you the run around and send you to person after person to try to keep you online. While we don't know if OP was in the right here from this story, you must have at least _some_ ability to see where they could be at fault
mooman219 9y ago
I completely agree with you that this is the normal case and too many people really brush this off as business as usual. Just anecdotal, but Amazon actually has been extremely forthcoming with their service and has made right of every issue I've had with them.

mi100hael 9y ago

The one company that hasn't totally sucked for me in this regard is AmEx. Every time I've called I've gotten a native English speaker located in the US who actually has the power to reverse charges within a matter of minutes.

kingnothing 9y ago
Counterpoint: I haven't received a native English speaker in years from Amex. Chase, on the other hand, has always provided support in English and without the need to navigate a phone tree. I'll probably move most of my purchases to them once I spend my stockpile of Amex MR points.
- Qub3d 9y ago
  Counter-counterpoint: I keep getting random notifications that "my card has been removed from android pay" from Chase and always have to navigate a phone tree. What's this secret shibboleet code[1] you've found? [1]: https://www.xkcd.com/806/ https://www.xkcd.com/806/
  - ubernostrum 9y ago
    Several of Chase's credit cards come with that as an advertised feature. But not all of them, which means that it's not "Chase in general" but "Chase, if you have one of these specific cards with them".
phil21 9y ago
This used to be the case - until I talked to them last time. Definitely not a US-based CSR, and completely unwilling to help in a very frustrating situation I had done almost everything right on. I don't charge back often (first time on this card ever, after close to a decade) - so it's not like I have a flag on my account for "shitty customer" or anything. Basically they utterly refused to chargeback, or even block future charges to a specific vendor that had been charging me monthly for a service I could not use due to moving. The vendor said their policy was I had to cancel in person, and refused to do anything else. Amex absolutely did not have my back, and I have one of their higher-tier cards. Absolutely have been looking around at alternatives now though, after basically being told they'll let a vendor continue charging me against my will forever and there was nothing they would do about it. They said take the vendor to court. I ended up canceling the card entirely and having it re-issued, since even changing the number on your card these days isn't enough to stop monthly recurring billing - of course that feature is for your "convenience". All in all it was a pretty horrible experience that they resolved in the favor of a vendor that was quite obviously playing the "make cancelation super hard so we can collect monthly payments from people who continue to put it off" game - Amex literally could not have cared less one of their merchants was essentially engaging in barely-legal consumer fraud. Utterly horrible customer service, and this was via many reps and a couple low-tier CSR managers. It's quite obvious to me why Chase and the like are eating steadily away at the once-stalwart Amex customer base. Prior to that experience I would not have remotely considered a different card due to them always being stellar whenever I needed them, and they usually went above and beyond any expectations I had for customer service. That trust built over the decades with me is now completely gone, and it's obvious they are simply yet another card issuer these days.
- rtx 9y ago
  I don't see them being at fault here. You willing entered into a contract.
  - lovich 9y ago
    Vendors who allow online or over the phone sign ups, but only in person cancellation don't tend to be relying on the quality of their product or service to keep customers. ISPs are one where if you are not a savvy consumer you wont realize that when they say up to X megabits a second that its not only a different unit from megabytes, but that anything 0 <= (actual service) <= X is considered meeting the terms of the contract. ISPs are also the type of company where you call to cancel the service, as the contract allows because you are not locked in, and instead of letting you cancel they give you the run around and send you to person after person to try to keep you online. While we don't know if OP was in the right here from this story, you must have at least _some_ ability to see where they could be at fault

mooman219 9y ago

I completely agree with you that this is the normal case and too many people really brush this off as business as usual. Just anecdotal, but Amazon actually has been extremely forthcoming with their service and has made right of every issue I've had with them.