4 ms·

... A year or so later, I had developed a good relationship with some important operations people in this space, and while there were no commitments there was a

... A year or so later, I had developed a good relationship with some important operations people in this space, and while there were no commitments there was a custom of quid pro quo. I felt I could trust these people, since they had helped me out so many times. Then my business started to eat into the profits of a competitor, who, unbeknown to me, also had some sort of agreement with these folks. It was clear to me that there was a win win where we could all resolve to get what we wanted and I proposed we reach consensus. Instead of engaging on that, my former partners stonewalled and hired private investigators to try to pressure me into accepting a bad deal. I didn't comply and eventually prevailed, and it took me a long time to process what happened. The most shocking thing for me was that these people who I had built up such a good relationship with tried to betray and hurt me. I couldn't accept it had happened, and I lived in denial, continuing to extend them an olive branch, much longer than it probably worked for me to do so. Around the same time, it was revealed that my partner who I had a formal agreement with, had known for years, trusted and considered family, had actually gone behind my back, while lying to my face, and began working with the former partners above, to make a deal for herself, to undermine my position from the inside. Three big betrayals in as many years. By people who I had considered family and the ones I could actually trust. It has been very hard to deal with. Particularly hard was I remembered a time when I actually trusted people and I felt strong and life was good. But as soon as I showed some signs of weakness, it was like everyone I had been close to suddenly piled on to take advantage of it. It really felt like kicking me while I was down, by those whom I considered I could trust with everything. But I still think of trust as something important, so my question is how do you handle betrayal by your inner circle, and how do you trust people, any people, not necessarily the betrayers, after you've known it?

smt88 9y ago
1. Never mix business with family or friendship. Ever. 2. Get a good lawyer and sign airtight contracts. Leave nothing to trust.
- ageyfman 9y ago
  1. PG specifically writes this in his Startup FAQ (www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html) "Most successful startups have more than one founder, and usually the founders seem to have been friends for at least a year before starting the company." 2. Yes.
  - smt88 9y ago
    PG isn't God. There are lots of reasons not to found with friends. Often, it's just that you're choosing someone you'd have fun working with over someone who's the right fit. Other times, your judgment is impaired by your affection for that person, and you can't determine whether they're a good fit or not.
  - romanovcode 9y ago
    Friend that you know for a year is not your brother/sister/uncle etc..
- 19eightyfour 9y ago
  Thanks, it's useful
keithnz 9y ago
There's no bullet proof way. Different people will do different thing, some people will be loyal to the end of time, others not so much. Sometimes not even in a pre calculated way, people go in thinking they will be super loyal, then something shifts, and they do things that undermine you. Also very hard when people strategize against you, there's no full proof way of doing things, just a lot of guidance to avoid known problems. History is full of stories of betrayal by inner circles... so you are not alone, just somewhat wiser to the nature of the beast
hitekker 9y ago
First, let me say that, according to the events described, it sounds like you got a really, really raw deal. I feel for you. Second, I'd like to remind you that there are decent human beings out there. I know that's hard to think of right now. Betrayal breaks not just the trust of one, but the closeness of all. God forbid you risk letting charlatans, monsters or animals-in-human-skin near you again. You have every right to be stingy with that trust. For now, at least. Besides the obvious of watching out for warning signs, I would recommend gradually working up to your normal level of trust, starting first by re-establishing your faith in the decency of others. Those people who you may not know or even like, but who will when the pressure is on, do the morally upright thing at some cost of their own self-interest. It is the inner strength of the few good folks out there makes life just. Not all of humanity, just a part of it we may never even meet or never even hear about. If we don't have faith that those people exist, then we're done for.[1] While I'm not religious, Judaism reifies this concept with the "Tzadik Nistar"[2]: at any given moment, thirty righteous people justify the world in God's eyes. If any of those people disappear and are not replaced, the world comes to an end. Lastly, regardless of my previous advice, I would encourage you to at least know that there are people on here who have been in the same or similar boat. Some of us want to help, to listen and even to care. Yes, some commenters will either delight in your misfortune, or will dispense un empathetic bromides. But I would encourage you to ignore those cretins; they don't matter. You matter and your faith in humanity matters. It is the key to trusting others again. [1] Slightly political so feel free to ignore. People who've given up on decency in the world seem to think like this: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/10/donald-trump-fires-james-comey-215123 http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/10/donald-tru... > Trump’s worldview, based on hundreds of interviews in the last year and a half, as well as an extensive, ongoing study of what he’s said and done for decades, is that everybody is out to get everybody. Life is a zero-sum struggle, and you’re on your own. For him to win, others must lose. “Man is the most vicious of all animals,” Trump told People in 1981. > “The world is a horrible place,” he wrote in Think Big in 2007. “Lions kill for food, but people kill for sport. People try to kill you mentally, especially if you are on top. We all have friends who want everything we have. They want our money, our business, house, car, wife, and dog. Those are our friends. Our enemies are even worse! You have got to protect yourself in life.” [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim#Their_purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim#Their_purpos...
mapster 9y ago
get a sense of people's motives and desires first. will they value friendship or $ when the time comes. Its strange that it is possible to have both, but the allure of more $ changes people.
- 19eightyfour 9y ago
  Thanks, this is useful

smt88 9y ago

1. Never mix business with family or friendship. Ever. 2. Get a good lawyer and sign airtight contracts. Leave nothing to trust.

ageyfman 9y ago
1. PG specifically writes this in his Startup FAQ (www.paulgraham.com/startupfaq.html) "Most successful startups have more than one founder, and usually the founders seem to have been friends for at least a year before starting the company." 2. Yes.
- smt88 9y ago
  PG isn't God. There are lots of reasons not to found with friends. Often, it's just that you're choosing someone you'd have fun working with over someone who's the right fit. Other times, your judgment is impaired by your affection for that person, and you can't determine whether they're a good fit or not.
- romanovcode 9y ago
  Friend that you know for a year is not your brother/sister/uncle etc..
19eightyfour 9y ago
Thanks, it's useful

keithnz 9y ago

There's no bullet proof way. Different people will do different thing, some people will be loyal to the end of time, others not so much. Sometimes not even in a pre calculated way, people go in thinking they will be super loyal, then something shifts, and they do things that undermine you. Also very hard when people strategize against you, there's no full proof way of doing things, just a lot of guidance to avoid known problems. History is full of stories of betrayal by inner circles... so you are not alone, just somewhat wiser to the nature of the beast

hitekker 9y ago

First, let me say that, according to the events described, it sounds like you got a really, really raw deal. I feel for you. Second, I'd like to remind you that there are decent human beings out there. I know that's hard to think of right now. Betrayal breaks not just the trust of one, but the closeness of all. God forbid you risk letting charlatans, monsters or animals-in-human-skin near you again. You have every right to be stingy with that trust. For now, at least. Besides the obvious of watching out for warning signs, I would recommend gradually working up to your normal level of trust, starting first by re-establishing your faith in the decency of others. Those people who you may not know or even like, but who will when the pressure is on, do the morally upright thing at some cost of their own self-interest. It is the inner strength of the few good folks out there makes life just. Not all of humanity, just a part of it we may never even meet or never even hear about. If we don't have faith that those people exist, then we're done for.[1] While I'm not religious, Judaism reifies this concept with the "Tzadik Nistar"[2]: at any given moment, thirty righteous people justify the world in God's eyes. If any of those people disappear and are not replaced, the world comes to an end. Lastly, regardless of my previous advice, I would encourage you to at least know that there are people on here who have been in the same or similar boat. Some of us want to help, to listen and even to care. Yes, some commenters will either delight in your misfortune, or will dispense un empathetic bromides. But I would encourage you to ignore those cretins; they don't matter. You matter and your faith in humanity matters. It is the key to trusting others again. [1] Slightly political so feel free to ignore. People who've given up on decency in the world seem to think like this: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/10/donald-trump-fires-james-comey-215123 http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/10/donald-tru... > Trump’s worldview, based on hundreds of interviews in the last year and a half, as well as an extensive, ongoing study of what he’s said and done for decades, is that everybody is out to get everybody. Life is a zero-sum struggle, and you’re on your own. For him to win, others must lose. “Man is the most vicious of all animals,” Trump told People in 1981. > “The world is a horrible place,” he wrote in Think Big in 2007. “Lions kill for food, but people kill for sport. People try to kill you mentally, especially if you are on top. We all have friends who want everything we have. They want our money, our business, house, car, wife, and dog. Those are our friends. Our enemies are even worse! You have got to protect yourself in life.” [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim#Their_purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim#Their_purpos...

mapster 9y ago

get a sense of people's motives and desires first. will they value friendship or $ when the time comes. Its strange that it is possible to have both, but the allure of more $ changes people.

19eightyfour 9y ago
Thanks, this is useful