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Many European cultures consider the inauthentic cheerfulness that is expected as part of emotional labor in Anglophone societies distasteful (I have been living

Many European cultures consider the inauthentic cheerfulness that is expected as part of emotional labor in Anglophone societies distasteful (I have been living in North America for many years, and still find it distasteful), and workers in those cultures rightly recognize these demands for emotional labor as being harmful to their mental health (see for example Hochschild's seminal The Managed Heart: Commercialization of Human Feeling).

Turing_Machine 9y ago
What makes you think that the cheerfulness is "inauthentic"? Some people actually do genuinely like other people and enjoy helping them. That you find it "inauthentic" may say more about you than it does about the service workers you're encountering.
- sedachv 9y ago
  > That you find it "inauthentic" may say more about you than it does about the service workers you're encountering. As would one's inability to understand eye contact and body language.
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    Body language and eye contact protocols differ between cultures. A lot. Have you considered the possibility that you are presenting yourself as what they see as rude and unfriendly, thus leading them to be uncomfortable while serving you?
    - sedachv 9y ago
      Have you considered the possibility that maybe it is you who is misunderstanding people? For example, my comment about eye contact and body language was actually an insult meant to imply that you lacked the ability to read either. On the other hand I usually have pleasant interactions with workers, and I also do not go around complaining when I receive less than enthusiastic service. One of the manners that helps in having pleasant interactions is avoiding giving strangers unsolicited advice, about their behavior or otherwise.
      - Turing_Machine 9y ago
        "Have you considered the possibility that maybe it is you who is misunderstanding people?" Well, we have two alternatives here: 1) A person who grew up in a culture has a gross misunderstanding of the norms of that culture. 2) Someone who grew up in a totally different culture has a gross misunderstanding of the norms of that culture. Now, which of those two seems more likely to you? "For example, my comment about eye contact and body language was actually an insult meant to imply that you lacked the ability to read either." Oh, I got that. I was just attempting to be polite by ignoring you being a jerk. Maybe someone is forcing me to do "unpaid emotional labor" or something. Once again: it's not them. It's you.
        sedachv 9y ago
        My original comment was to point out the cultural inappropriateness and onerousness of late stage capitalists' demands for emotional labor. Your response was to suggest that it is actually my fault and that I am behaving inappropriately. You see nothing insulting about that? You are the jerk here.
        Turing_Machine 9y ago
        You seem to be a very unpleasant person all around. Goodbye.
- stevekemp 9y ago
  Enter a Disney shop, in many parts of the world and somebody will say "Hello, how are you?" Leave the shop and that same greeter will say "Have a great day!" That always feels incredibly forced, and very very fake. But what do I know, I'm British ..!
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    Disney stores are...ummm... not a representative sample. :-)
    - stevekemp 9y ago
      Very much so, but its a good example of fakeness/insincerity that matches the topic.
      - Turing_Machine 9y ago
        Maybe in the sense that Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany would be a good example of "European politics". The OP was making a general observation about the United States as a whole. Picking an extreme example like Disney is a Hasty Generalization fallacy. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/100/Hasty-Generalization https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...
        stevekemp 9y ago
        I was trying to suggest that those stores, here in Europe, have greeters and those greeters are the very epitome of fakeness - which the parent was referring to. I suspect the confusion comes because people assumed I meant Disney stores in the states.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > What makes you think that the cheerfulness is "inauthentic"? The fact that workers are trained in cheerfulness, and are given a set of phrases they must say, and that they say these phrases all day everyday to every single person they meet makes me think the cheerfulness is inauthentic.
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    Being trained in cheerfulness doesn't make the cheerfulness "inauthentic" any more than being trained to make hamburgers makes the hamburger "inauthentic". Good grief.
ibotty 9y ago
Thank you for the reference! I happen to knew it before, but forgot the name and could not find it anymore.
shostack 9y ago
This is fascinating to learn about, and I definitely understand the reasoning behind it. When I was in Vienna visiting a friend, we went to a traditional coffee shop where we were waited on by a grumpy old man in a suit (emphasis on grump). Would that be an example of this?
- chuck32 9y ago
  This is absolutely an example of this. Don't take it personally. The guy was probably grumpy to everybody else that day too. Its the result of a general consensus in Germanic countries that forced happiness is distasteful (as has been mentioned) and a lesser appreciation of politeness between strangers. Its not that they are trying to deliberately be rude to you its just that they don't bother to feign cheeriness. Of course this is a massive generalization but overall its an observation of whats valued in the culture. This is in complete contrast with Americans who will go out of their way to seem happy and cheery, "Hey, my name's Steve, how are you today? So happy to have you in my shop!" - when all you want to buy is a stick of gum.. The UK is a bit different from both the USA and Germany in that they definitely value politeness and cordiality between strangers (whether in a customer service setting or just in general) but they find any overt displays of emotion distasteful so prefer to keep the politeness low-key. Only mentioning the UK because some people are comparing Germanic values with English speaking countries so just wanted to make the distinction.
  - shostack 9y ago
    Definitely didn't take it personally since my local friend gave me the heads up before we went in. Where does that notion of finding forced happiness distasteful stem from originally? For that matter, now I wonder where the opposite in America stems from.
    - taway_1212 9y ago
      > Where does that notion of finding forced happiness distasteful stem from originally? For that matter, now I wonder where the opposite in America stems from. I can speculate that it's just general cultural differences. America has an self-made, "everyone can be a millionaire" spirit, which encourages people to push harder to earn a dollar (up to the point of routinely faking emotions), while in Europe the culture seems to be more like "you're not going to be a millionaire, so just relax and try enjoying life". I (as an European) think the European way is just realistic, while American way is a distortion created by a period in American history where people came to America with nothing and got lots of good land for cheap/free from the government (which created the illusion that hard work is a very solid way for hugely improving your material position).

Turing_Machine 9y ago

What makes you think that the cheerfulness is "inauthentic"? Some people actually do genuinely like other people and enjoy helping them. That you find it "inauthentic" may say more about you than it does about the service workers you're encountering.

sedachv 9y ago
> That you find it "inauthentic" may say more about you than it does about the service workers you're encountering. As would one's inability to understand eye contact and body language.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  Body language and eye contact protocols differ between cultures. A lot. Have you considered the possibility that you are presenting yourself as what they see as rude and unfriendly, thus leading them to be uncomfortable while serving you?
  - sedachv 9y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that maybe it is you who is misunderstanding people? For example, my comment about eye contact and body language was actually an insult meant to imply that you lacked the ability to read either. On the other hand I usually have pleasant interactions with workers, and I also do not go around complaining when I receive less than enthusiastic service. One of the manners that helps in having pleasant interactions is avoiding giving strangers unsolicited advice, about their behavior or otherwise.
    - Turing_Machine 9y ago
      "Have you considered the possibility that maybe it is you who is misunderstanding people?" Well, we have two alternatives here: 1) A person who grew up in a culture has a gross misunderstanding of the norms of that culture. 2) Someone who grew up in a totally different culture has a gross misunderstanding of the norms of that culture. Now, which of those two seems more likely to you? "For example, my comment about eye contact and body language was actually an insult meant to imply that you lacked the ability to read either." Oh, I got that. I was just attempting to be polite by ignoring you being a jerk. Maybe someone is forcing me to do "unpaid emotional labor" or something. Once again: it's not them. It's you.
      - sedachv 9y ago
        My original comment was to point out the cultural inappropriateness and onerousness of late stage capitalists' demands for emotional labor. Your response was to suggest that it is actually my fault and that I am behaving inappropriately. You see nothing insulting about that? You are the jerk here.
        Turing_Machine 9y ago
        You seem to be a very unpleasant person all around. Goodbye.
stevekemp 9y ago
Enter a Disney shop, in many parts of the world and somebody will say "Hello, how are you?" Leave the shop and that same greeter will say "Have a great day!" That always feels incredibly forced, and very very fake. But what do I know, I'm British ..!
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  Disney stores are...ummm... not a representative sample. :-)
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    Very much so, but its a good example of fakeness/insincerity that matches the topic.
    - Turing_Machine 9y ago
      Maybe in the sense that Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany would be a good example of "European politics". The OP was making a general observation about the United States as a whole. Picking an extreme example like Disney is a Hasty Generalization fallacy. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/100/Hasty-Generalization https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...
      - stevekemp 9y ago
        I was trying to suggest that those stores, here in Europe, have greeters and those greeters are the very epitome of fakeness - which the parent was referring to. I suspect the confusion comes because people assumed I meant Disney stores in the states.
DanBC 9y ago
> What makes you think that the cheerfulness is "inauthentic"? The fact that workers are trained in cheerfulness, and are given a set of phrases they must say, and that they say these phrases all day everyday to every single person they meet makes me think the cheerfulness is inauthentic.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  Being trained in cheerfulness doesn't make the cheerfulness "inauthentic" any more than being trained to make hamburgers makes the hamburger "inauthentic". Good grief.

ibotty 9y ago

Thank you for the reference! I happen to knew it before, but forgot the name and could not find it anymore.

shostack 9y ago

This is fascinating to learn about, and I definitely understand the reasoning behind it. When I was in Vienna visiting a friend, we went to a traditional coffee shop where we were waited on by a grumpy old man in a suit (emphasis on grump). Would that be an example of this?

chuck32 9y ago
This is absolutely an example of this. Don't take it personally. The guy was probably grumpy to everybody else that day too. Its the result of a general consensus in Germanic countries that forced happiness is distasteful (as has been mentioned) and a lesser appreciation of politeness between strangers. Its not that they are trying to deliberately be rude to you its just that they don't bother to feign cheeriness. Of course this is a massive generalization but overall its an observation of whats valued in the culture. This is in complete contrast with Americans who will go out of their way to seem happy and cheery, "Hey, my name's Steve, how are you today? So happy to have you in my shop!" - when all you want to buy is a stick of gum.. The UK is a bit different from both the USA and Germany in that they definitely value politeness and cordiality between strangers (whether in a customer service setting or just in general) but they find any overt displays of emotion distasteful so prefer to keep the politeness low-key. Only mentioning the UK because some people are comparing Germanic values with English speaking countries so just wanted to make the distinction.
- shostack 9y ago
  Definitely didn't take it personally since my local friend gave me the heads up before we went in. Where does that notion of finding forced happiness distasteful stem from originally? For that matter, now I wonder where the opposite in America stems from.
  - taway_1212 9y ago
    > Where does that notion of finding forced happiness distasteful stem from originally? For that matter, now I wonder where the opposite in America stems from. I can speculate that it's just general cultural differences. America has an self-made, "everyone can be a millionaire" spirit, which encourages people to push harder to earn a dollar (up to the point of routinely faking emotions), while in Europe the culture seems to be more like "you're not going to be a millionaire, so just relax and try enjoying life". I (as an European) think the European way is just realistic, while American way is a distortion created by a period in American history where people came to America with nothing and got lots of good land for cheap/free from the government (which created the illusion that hard work is a very solid way for hugely improving your material position).