3 ms·

Even in 2004 why work $40/hr if you are a good programmer. If you like game programming make one for yourself while relaxing in a boring Big Corporation.

by visava 16y ago

liedra 16y ago
A lot of good programmers are not good graphics designers or good artists or marketers but want to get into the games industry because they like the idea of working on games. There are (in Australia at least) even entire bachelors degree streams on game programming (for more complicated games that require lots of people), so it would probably seem natural to those graduates to seek employment there too, since they really have specialised in game programming. Like someone mentioned above, it's a glamour job, kinda like working in the film industry. You'd be surprised what people will do to "get in".
- _delirium 16y ago
  Yeah, I've talked to people in the game industry about where they see their careers going, and the idea of leaving it entirely to go work at some "normal" software job is almost horrifying to many: give up their dream of making games, and settle for being in the credits to like, Microsoft Office 2013, or working on a search engine at Google or something? The "plan B" seems almost invariably to be to accumulate enough money/connections to start an indie-game studio, at least a ramen-profitable one--- much more often than a plan-B of working a "normal" programming job, anyway. Partly this might be because many of the game programmers really want to be game designers, and hope to work their way up to that. From that perspective, moving from game programming to "normal" programming is sort of a step in the wrong direction, since it's even further from game design than game programming is.
  - m0tive 16y ago
    I have to agree, that's the way I see it. I'm just finishing a computer animation / games programming degree and I'm about to start looking for work. The only other thing I'd add, from my point of view, is my games (and graphics) programming skills and training have always seemed completely separate to traditional software development. For instance, there is a computer software course at my university but it's in a different department (in engineering, mine is in 'media'). I think, at least from the point of view of a graduate, traditional and games programming seem like two different industries...
    - _delirium 16y ago
      Ah yeah, that's an issue I've been doing a lot of thinking about--- I'm finishing up a games-and-AI PhD and, gods willing, going to start soonish as a prof in a cs-and-games program. They vary a lot from school to school, and I think we're still working out how they should be taught, and where they should go relative to other departments. Some are basically CS programs with a bit of an applied twist, some are basically media-studies programs, some are very art-heavy, some are more like a vocational degree, and many are some mixture of those. Some of the variation is based on institutional politics, I think (probably more than it should be), but some is a fundamental disagreement over what games "really" are. The two endpoints of the spectrum of views are: 1) games are a specific type of software, like search engines or word processors or operating systems; or 2) games are a specific type of media, like films or cartoons or novels. Mind sharing where you went? I have some first-hand knowledge of Georgia Tech's and UC Santa Cruz's programs, and am curious how others compare.
      - m0tive 16y ago
        I'm at Bournemouth Uni in the UK. I think it works quite well here for most of the courses (which more of a focus on film effect and game content) to be under the media umbrella, but for outliers like me it feels a bit odd receiving a Bachelor of Art for writing a (simple) games engine. Now I'm finishing an MSc which has a focus on programming for film effects. One of the downsides I've felt from my experience is a lack of formal education in software development. I've had quite a lot of programming lectures but everything beyond C++ inheritance has been off my own back. Another factor with Bournemouth is there is a strong (and positive) influence from the London film effects houses. There is almost an assumption that on finishing, you go work for someone in films which (going back to the original point) just adds to the separation from traditional CS.
    - enneff 16y ago
      "The only other thing I'd add, from my point of view, is my games (and graphics) programming skills and training have always seemed completely separate to traditional software development" What kind of programming role do you think you'd have in a team? I ask because, as a generalist programmer, I think that I could write you any kind of program, including a game engine, at a professional level. I'm just wondering what the difference between my training and yours is.
ido 16y ago
Is 40$/hr generally a low salary for a programmer? If you're counting it as 45h/week that would be 92,880$/year.
teamonkey 16y ago
Why work for 8 hours a day on something that bores you senseless and a further 4 hours on something that you love, instead of 12 hours on something that you enjoy (most of the time)? OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but most of the people who work in games love games and it does compensate a bit (though not enough) for the long hours and comparatively low pay.

Even in 2004 why work $40/hr if you are a good programmer. If you like game programming make one for yourself while relaxing in a boring Big Corporation.

by visava 16y ago

Even in 2004 why work $40/hr if you are a good programmer. If you like game programming make one for yourself while relaxing in a boring Big Corporation.

liedra 16y ago

A lot of good programmers are not good graphics designers or good artists or marketers but want to get into the games industry because they like the idea of working on games. There are (in Australia at least) even entire bachelors degree streams on game programming (for more complicated games that require lots of people), so it would probably seem natural to those graduates to seek employment there too, since they really have specialised in game programming. Like someone mentioned above, it's a glamour job, kinda like working in the film industry. You'd be surprised what people will do to "get in".

_delirium 16y ago
Yeah, I've talked to people in the game industry about where they see their careers going, and the idea of leaving it entirely to go work at some "normal" software job is almost horrifying to many: give up their dream of making games, and settle for being in the credits to like, Microsoft Office 2013, or working on a search engine at Google or something? The "plan B" seems almost invariably to be to accumulate enough money/connections to start an indie-game studio, at least a ramen-profitable one--- much more often than a plan-B of working a "normal" programming job, anyway. Partly this might be because many of the game programmers really want to be game designers, and hope to work their way up to that. From that perspective, moving from game programming to "normal" programming is sort of a step in the wrong direction, since it's even further from game design than game programming is.
- m0tive 16y ago
  I have to agree, that's the way I see it. I'm just finishing a computer animation / games programming degree and I'm about to start looking for work. The only other thing I'd add, from my point of view, is my games (and graphics) programming skills and training have always seemed completely separate to traditional software development. For instance, there is a computer software course at my university but it's in a different department (in engineering, mine is in 'media'). I think, at least from the point of view of a graduate, traditional and games programming seem like two different industries...
  - _delirium 16y ago
    Ah yeah, that's an issue I've been doing a lot of thinking about--- I'm finishing up a games-and-AI PhD and, gods willing, going to start soonish as a prof in a cs-and-games program. They vary a lot from school to school, and I think we're still working out how they should be taught, and where they should go relative to other departments. Some are basically CS programs with a bit of an applied twist, some are basically media-studies programs, some are very art-heavy, some are more like a vocational degree, and many are some mixture of those. Some of the variation is based on institutional politics, I think (probably more than it should be), but some is a fundamental disagreement over what games "really" are. The two endpoints of the spectrum of views are: 1) games are a specific type of software, like search engines or word processors or operating systems; or 2) games are a specific type of media, like films or cartoons or novels. Mind sharing where you went? I have some first-hand knowledge of Georgia Tech's and UC Santa Cruz's programs, and am curious how others compare.
    - m0tive 16y ago
      I'm at Bournemouth Uni in the UK. I think it works quite well here for most of the courses (which more of a focus on film effect and game content) to be under the media umbrella, but for outliers like me it feels a bit odd receiving a Bachelor of Art for writing a (simple) games engine. Now I'm finishing an MSc which has a focus on programming for film effects. One of the downsides I've felt from my experience is a lack of formal education in software development. I've had quite a lot of programming lectures but everything beyond C++ inheritance has been off my own back. Another factor with Bournemouth is there is a strong (and positive) influence from the London film effects houses. There is almost an assumption that on finishing, you go work for someone in films which (going back to the original point) just adds to the separation from traditional CS.
  - enneff 16y ago
    "The only other thing I'd add, from my point of view, is my games (and graphics) programming skills and training have always seemed completely separate to traditional software development" What kind of programming role do you think you'd have in a team? I ask because, as a generalist programmer, I think that I could write you any kind of program, including a game engine, at a professional level. I'm just wondering what the difference between my training and yours is.

ido 16y ago

Is 40$/hr generally a low salary for a programmer? If you're counting it as 45h/week that would be 92,880$/year.

teamonkey 16y ago

Why work for 8 hours a day on something that bores you senseless and a further 4 hours on something that you love, instead of 12 hours on something that you enjoy (most of the time)? OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but most of the people who work in games love games and it does compensate a bit (though not enough) for the long hours and comparatively low pay.