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Yup. This was back when it wasn't, though, back when fat was evil and we had to completely eliminate it from our diets. Lard tastes better too. You ever had

Yup. This was back when it wasn't, though, back when fat was evil and we had to completely eliminate it from our diets. Lard tastes better too. You ever had pie crust that was made with lard instead of vegetable shortening? Makes you feel like you've been lied to your whole life.

oh_sigh 9y ago
The article makes only one tiny mention of switching away from lard for health reasons - the main thing mentioned is basically that creameries(which were Kosher) wanted to put Oreos in their ice cream, but couldn't because Oreos were not kosher at that time. I'm not sure how much health played a factor, vs the economics of capturing a large swath of the ice-cream-additions market
- ars 9y ago
  Read it again. The timeline was the other way around. First they switched away from lard for health reasons. Later creameries saw that there was a possibility of putting in Oreos (since all the ingredients were kosher), so contacted them about getting the facility certified. If (other than eggs) your product has no animal products it's usually pretty easy to get it certified. It requires mainly a very very intensive cleaning, and then careful record keeping and quality controls on sourcing.
  - koolba 9y ago
    Do you have to pay someone to regularly come check on it or is it a one time thing?
    - ars 9y ago
      It's always regularly, but the frequency depends on the complexity of the process - inspections range from once a year plus paperwork, to continuous on-site inspector. And cost varies according to how many visits are necessary, and how many ingredients, and how complex the production process. Also how remote - for example remote fishing vessels that cook and can fish on-site, or in small countries without much of a Jewish presence, so someone has to fly in. (There's plenty of competition BTW - there are several hundred certification agencies, and there is no central authority.)
ars 9y ago
> back when fat was evil Not fat (the replacement was also fat) but rather saturated fat was the evil one.
- markdown 9y ago
  Is it no longer so? Is saturated fat now considered OK?
  - cowmoo728 9y ago
    The tl;dr of it is that large amounts of saturated fat may not be exactly good for you, but the dangers were grossly over exaggerated. You should probably still eat mostly vegetables, but you can put some butter and lard on things and not feel guilty.
  - tcoff91 9y ago
    It's complicated. According to what I heard from Dr. Rhonda Patrick, it's not inherently bad on its own, but when eaten with sugar it causes the formation of small dense LDL particles, which contribute to the clogging of arteries.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Not fat (the replacement was also fat) but rather saturated fat was the evil one. Shortening is vegetable oil that's been treated to transform it into (in part) saturated fat. So it's not even about that, either.
  - ars 9y ago
    No, partially hydrogenated oil is not saturated, it's unsaturated. Today we give is a separate category of "trans", but back then it was listed with the unsaturated fats. They made sure not to let it run far enough that any of it was saturated. Which is exactly why it was made! Specifically to look good on food labels. (And because it was cheap.) Such a huge mistake. (Fully hydrogenated fat is saturated.)
    - 9y ago
bradleyjg 9y ago
What about butter?
- legitster 9y ago
  Butter doesn't provide the same texture as lard/shortening in pie dough (something to do with the balance of saturated fats), so butter usually only supplements for flavor.
  - YZF 9y ago
    You can make great pie dough with butter... We do that all the time.
    - zwieback 9y ago
      Agree, I bought expensive leaf lard and tried it a few times in pie crusts. I much prefer all-butter crusts to lard, even 50% lard gives it a flavor I find unpleasant and the texture advantages are overstated as well.
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
> Lard tastes better too. Toast a few slices of bread. Make sure the surface turns crunchy. Grab a clove of garlic and rub it on the toasted bread until it disappears. Repeat until the surface has imbibed enough garlic paste. Now spread some lard on it. Use a generous amount. Bonus points for using goose lard instead. Sprinkle salt. Enjoy.
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
  Or, of course, you could use olive oil instead of the lard. It tastes just as great but it's actually good for you and it's even kosher/halal. Actually, to be honest, I find the olive oil tastes _much_ better than the lard, but to each their own (my father makes olive oil).
  - basch 9y ago
    >actually good for you implying lard isnt or cant be?
    - YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
      Implying there's nobody who thinks polyunsaturated fats are bad for you.
  - Florin_Andrei 9y ago
    Sounds like early memories tend to make deep imprints. That's definitely my case, at least. That was a childhood memory, from growing up in Eastern Europe.

oh_sigh 9y ago

The article makes only one tiny mention of switching away from lard for health reasons - the main thing mentioned is basically that creameries(which were Kosher) wanted to put Oreos in their ice cream, but couldn't because Oreos were not kosher at that time. I'm not sure how much health played a factor, vs the economics of capturing a large swath of the ice-cream-additions market

ars 9y ago
Read it again. The timeline was the other way around. First they switched away from lard for health reasons. Later creameries saw that there was a possibility of putting in Oreos (since all the ingredients were kosher), so contacted them about getting the facility certified. If (other than eggs) your product has no animal products it's usually pretty easy to get it certified. It requires mainly a very very intensive cleaning, and then careful record keeping and quality controls on sourcing.
- koolba 9y ago
  Do you have to pay someone to regularly come check on it or is it a one time thing?
  - ars 9y ago
    It's always regularly, but the frequency depends on the complexity of the process - inspections range from once a year plus paperwork, to continuous on-site inspector. And cost varies according to how many visits are necessary, and how many ingredients, and how complex the production process. Also how remote - for example remote fishing vessels that cook and can fish on-site, or in small countries without much of a Jewish presence, so someone has to fly in. (There's plenty of competition BTW - there are several hundred certification agencies, and there is no central authority.)

ars 9y ago

> back when fat was evil Not fat (the replacement was also fat) but rather saturated fat was the evil one.

markdown 9y ago
Is it no longer so? Is saturated fat now considered OK?
- cowmoo728 9y ago
  The tl;dr of it is that large amounts of saturated fat may not be exactly good for you, but the dangers were grossly over exaggerated. You should probably still eat mostly vegetables, but you can put some butter and lard on things and not feel guilty.
- tcoff91 9y ago
  It's complicated. According to what I heard from Dr. Rhonda Patrick, it's not inherently bad on its own, but when eaten with sugar it causes the formation of small dense LDL particles, which contribute to the clogging of arteries.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Not fat (the replacement was also fat) but rather saturated fat was the evil one. Shortening is vegetable oil that's been treated to transform it into (in part) saturated fat. So it's not even about that, either.
- ars 9y ago
  No, partially hydrogenated oil is not saturated, it's unsaturated. Today we give is a separate category of "trans", but back then it was listed with the unsaturated fats. They made sure not to let it run far enough that any of it was saturated. Which is exactly why it was made! Specifically to look good on food labels. (And because it was cheap.) Such a huge mistake. (Fully hydrogenated fat is saturated.)
  - 9y ago

bradleyjg 9y ago

What about butter?

legitster 9y ago
Butter doesn't provide the same texture as lard/shortening in pie dough (something to do with the balance of saturated fats), so butter usually only supplements for flavor.
- YZF 9y ago
  You can make great pie dough with butter... We do that all the time.
  - zwieback 9y ago
    Agree, I bought expensive leaf lard and tried it a few times in pie crusts. I much prefer all-butter crusts to lard, even 50% lard gives it a flavor I find unpleasant and the texture advantages are overstated as well.

Florin_Andrei 9y ago

> Lard tastes better too. Toast a few slices of bread. Make sure the surface turns crunchy. Grab a clove of garlic and rub it on the toasted bread until it disappears. Repeat until the surface has imbibed enough garlic paste. Now spread some lard on it. Use a generous amount. Bonus points for using goose lard instead. Sprinkle salt. Enjoy.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
Or, of course, you could use olive oil instead of the lard. It tastes just as great but it's actually good for you and it's even kosher/halal. Actually, to be honest, I find the olive oil tastes _much_ better than the lard, but to each their own (my father makes olive oil).
- basch 9y ago
  >actually good for you implying lard isnt or cant be?
  - YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
    Implying there's nobody who thinks polyunsaturated fats are bad for you.
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago
  Sounds like early memories tend to make deep imprints. That's definitely my case, at least. That was a childhood memory, from growing up in Eastern Europe.