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> without a venue for employees to drug themselve Order a non-alcoholic beverage? When I go to the bar with coworkers to talk and vent about the workplace it's

> without a venue for employees to drug themselve Order a non-alcoholic beverage? When I go to the bar with coworkers to talk and vent about the workplace it's not to be drunk and make a fool of myself in front of everyone. Drink a beer or a cocktail if you enjoy them but otherwise order a soda / a delicious non-alcoholic cocktail or simply order food and eat your meal. It's not as if people were hitting divebars with their coworkers, getting totally drunk and high on drugs. While those things can happen it's generally way past the 5-7 you are expected to be at.

ABCLAW 9y ago
Your position feels a lot like "why wouldn't they adapt to fit my preferred way to socialize and blow off steam?" When the default fits you, it sure is attractive to advance that idea! But what happens when you aren't? Is the default of going out after work conducive to someone who needs to pick up their kid after work? Is it conducive to someone who can't or won't drink? etc. What if those workers just want to solve some cool work problems? What happens when the default is so socially required that they're hindered from doing cool work stuff unless they participate? If that happens, you have a cultural problem.
- lmm 9y ago
  Any culture will exclude some people, because not all cultures are alike and not everyone tolerates a culture unlike their own. You can go for the blandest possible culture to minimise the exclusions, but that's a lot like having no culture and results in a virtually asocial workplace, which is neither the kind of place I want to work, nor what my experience suggests is productive. Not every workplace can be the right place for absolutely everyone; it's worth putting some effort into accommodating people and meeting them halfway, but socialising is too valuable to be worth giving up entirely.
- shaklee3 9y ago
  What other social setting are you proposing?
  - pc86 9y ago
    They're not, that's the problem. They're saying "well some people are alcoholics, and some people have kids, so if you want to go to a bar or restaurant after work you're excluding people and that's literally the worst thing in the world." If you have kids, you will be busier and you will miss events like a work happy hour. That's pretty much a fact of life and I don't know many parents who would have it any other way. Likewise, work isn't a computer program where you can just do "cool work problems" and get promoted. It's social. If you're anti-social, you can expect to reach the top of your career progression sooner than folks who are capable of being friendly, having a beer, and calling it a night.
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  > If that happens, you have a cultural problem. Yes. If happy hours are made and scheduled in a way that missing them would lead to missing "work" then the employer isn't being honest. Pushing happy hours to have your employees work for free is unethical.

ABCLAW 9y ago

Your position feels a lot like "why wouldn't they adapt to fit my preferred way to socialize and blow off steam?" When the default fits you, it sure is attractive to advance that idea! But what happens when you aren't? Is the default of going out after work conducive to someone who needs to pick up their kid after work? Is it conducive to someone who can't or won't drink? etc. What if those workers just want to solve some cool work problems? What happens when the default is so socially required that they're hindered from doing cool work stuff unless they participate? If that happens, you have a cultural problem.

lmm 9y ago
Any culture will exclude some people, because not all cultures are alike and not everyone tolerates a culture unlike their own. You can go for the blandest possible culture to minimise the exclusions, but that's a lot like having no culture and results in a virtually asocial workplace, which is neither the kind of place I want to work, nor what my experience suggests is productive. Not every workplace can be the right place for absolutely everyone; it's worth putting some effort into accommodating people and meeting them halfway, but socialising is too valuable to be worth giving up entirely.
shaklee3 9y ago
What other social setting are you proposing?
- pc86 9y ago
  They're not, that's the problem. They're saying "well some people are alcoholics, and some people have kids, so if you want to go to a bar or restaurant after work you're excluding people and that's literally the worst thing in the world." If you have kids, you will be busier and you will miss events like a work happy hour. That's pretty much a fact of life and I don't know many parents who would have it any other way. Likewise, work isn't a computer program where you can just do "cool work problems" and get promoted. It's social. If you're anti-social, you can expect to reach the top of your career progression sooner than folks who are capable of being friendly, having a beer, and calling it a night.
Raphmedia 9y ago
> If that happens, you have a cultural problem. Yes. If happy hours are made and scheduled in a way that missing them would lead to missing "work" then the employer isn't being honest. Pushing happy hours to have your employees work for free is unethical.