4 ms·

Because software isn't a zero sum game. Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Val

by Pxtl 9y ago

Because software isn't a zero sum game. Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. It means you get bigger companies doing bigger things with bigger success which means bigger quantities of cash whirling around up for grabs. Being the only plumber in town means you can charge whatever you want. Being the only developer in town means you're telecommuting and competing with Satyam.

ryandrake 9y ago
> Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. I think we might be talking about two different Silicon Valleys. The one here in the real world has a glut of developers fighting for scraps. Companies that have the luxury of being extremely picky and only hiring the best. Lots of interviewing and so-called "open positions" but not a lot of hiring.
- linkregister 9y ago
  I disagree; the nationwide median salary was $100,080; the bottom 10% earned less than $58,300. [1] The unemployment rate for Computer and Mathematical Occupations was about 2.0%. [2] Anecdotally, since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them, none of my friends from college are working outside of software. Some earn at the 10% spot in low cost-of-living areas, but they all are employed with enough money to get by. 1. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... 2. https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea30.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea30.htm Edit: this only holds true for the U.S.; unemployment for coders is probably far different in other countries.
  - Bakary 9y ago
    >since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them I've never thought of it this way, but it seems so obvious in retrospect.
- zghst 9y ago
  If you’re a basic dev (uneconomical to hire and train), the market works against you. If you’re halfway decent and hungry, companies are scrambling to get you on your team. I’ve been recruited just from random conversations at bars or on Muni. The “real world” is not a winner take all place, there is enough room for everyone and everyone can up their game/differentiate. Nothing is stopping people from going up or down the ladder but themselves.
derefr 9y ago
Software isn't precisely zero-sum, but it's zero-sum assuming a static supply of companies to work for. Which ends up being the case in Canada, since 1. there isn't much of a culture of entrepreneurship; 2. there are few VCs, and they're pretty much all hyper-conservative, to the point that they may as well be banks.
- sintaxi 9y ago
  Obviously the principle of supply vs. demand still applies.
- calvinbhai 9y ago
  Influx of immigrants, with zero shackling of immigrants == good chances of successful entrepreneurship. In a few months/years, students from India and China going to US for grad studies will slow down, and most of them chosing Canada over US. In a few years, if US continues its systematic and unfair ways of keeping citizens of India and China from immigrating to US, and Canada continues its policy of courting immigrants, you'll see a culture of entrepreneurship growing in Canada too.
  - derefr 9y ago
    To be clear, it's not that there aren't startup founders who are Canadian citizens. But, in my experience, they tend to move to the US as well—not for the tech talent pool, but rather for access to "proper" VCs. Canada has been creating startup founders for a while now... it just hasn't translated into Canadian startups. Meanwhile, these startup founders often come back to Canada after getting their startup off the ground in the US... to create a Canadian "engineering branch office"—i.e., to hire tech talent at the cheaper Canadian going rate. But, of course, this only happens for startups that manage to get to a stage where they need whole offices of additional tech talent—which is not most startups. Given this dynamic, I wouldn't expect increasing the number of available developers would do much at all. Now, if you could come up with some way to keep entrepreneurs from moving to the US, that might help...
  - geodel 9y ago
    > if US continues its systematic and unfair ways of keeping citizens of India and China from immigrating to US Canadian policy was always much easier than US for immigration. I wonder then why Indian/Chinese did not go in much larger numbers to Canada as compared to US.

by Pxtl 9y ago

ryandrake 9y ago

> Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. I think we might be talking about two different Silicon Valleys. The one here in the real world has a glut of developers fighting for scraps. Companies that have the luxury of being extremely picky and only hiring the best. Lots of interviewing and so-called "open positions" but not a lot of hiring.

linkregister 9y ago
I disagree; the nationwide median salary was $100,080; the bottom 10% earned less than $58,300. [1] The unemployment rate for Computer and Mathematical Occupations was about 2.0%. [2] Anecdotally, since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them, none of my friends from college are working outside of software. Some earn at the 10% spot in low cost-of-living areas, but they all are employed with enough money to get by. 1. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm#tab-5 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... 2. https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea30.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea30.htm Edit: this only holds true for the U.S.; unemployment for coders is probably far different in other countries.
- Bakary 9y ago
  >since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them I've never thought of it this way, but it seems so obvious in retrospect.
zghst 9y ago
If you’re a basic dev (uneconomical to hire and train), the market works against you. If you’re halfway decent and hungry, companies are scrambling to get you on your team. I’ve been recruited just from random conversations at bars or on Muni. The “real world” is not a winner take all place, there is enough room for everyone and everyone can up their game/differentiate. Nothing is stopping people from going up or down the ladder but themselves.

derefr 9y ago

Software isn't precisely zero-sum, but it's zero-sum assuming a static supply of companies to work for. Which ends up being the case in Canada, since 1. there isn't much of a culture of entrepreneurship; 2. there are few VCs, and they're pretty much all hyper-conservative, to the point that they may as well be banks.

sintaxi 9y ago
Obviously the principle of supply vs. demand still applies.
calvinbhai 9y ago
Influx of immigrants, with zero shackling of immigrants == good chances of successful entrepreneurship. In a few months/years, students from India and China going to US for grad studies will slow down, and most of them chosing Canada over US. In a few years, if US continues its systematic and unfair ways of keeping citizens of India and China from immigrating to US, and Canada continues its policy of courting immigrants, you'll see a culture of entrepreneurship growing in Canada too.
- derefr 9y ago
  To be clear, it's not that there aren't startup founders who are Canadian citizens. But, in my experience, they tend to move to the US as well—not for the tech talent pool, but rather for access to "proper" VCs. Canada has been creating startup founders for a while now... it just hasn't translated into Canadian startups. Meanwhile, these startup founders often come back to Canada after getting their startup off the ground in the US... to create a Canadian "engineering branch office"—i.e., to hire tech talent at the cheaper Canadian going rate. But, of course, this only happens for startups that manage to get to a stage where they need whole offices of additional tech talent—which is not most startups. Given this dynamic, I wouldn't expect increasing the number of available developers would do much at all. Now, if you could come up with some way to keep entrepreneurs from moving to the US, that might help...
- geodel 9y ago
  > if US continues its systematic and unfair ways of keeping citizens of India and China from immigrating to US Canadian policy was always much easier than US for immigration. I wonder then why Indian/Chinese did not go in much larger numbers to Canada as compared to US.