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While this makes sense, I don't think you're going to make much progress convincing those suffering from oversized student loan debt that they are the expected

While this makes sense, I don't think you're going to make much progress convincing those suffering from oversized student loan debt that they are the expected "economic consequences" of a policy you believe to have been misguided. In this particular thread, it rings especially painful: the article discusses the way the upper 20% maintain their hold on power and resources; raising the cost of education clearly helps that goal. The poster to whom your responding points out that their loan debt is so large that they will not have the opportunity to have an income similar to those who graduated with similar credentials a generation previous, something unique in US history. If we don't take steps to correct the situation, eventually only the upper 20% will be able to afford higher education. Regardless of how we might feel about government meddling, we all should be able to agree that it's anti-American to make higher education a privilege only the wealthy can enjoy. You point out that the rich have always had more influence in politics then the poor, and this is obvious and has always been the case. By no means does this make the Citizens United decision less important, I'd argue that this is a tangential point. Citizens United has allowed corporations more weight to their voice then most of the US citizenry, wealthy or poor! In my opinion, the upper 20% have much more to fear from corporate interests than the lower 80%.

smsm42 9y ago
> I don't think you're going to make much progress convincing those suffering from oversized student loan debt that they are the expected "economic consequences" of a policy you believe to have been misguided If they don't somehow get convinced of that, they will continue suffering, and their children would be suffering even more, until some catastrophic event forces the change of policy out of necessity. Or until some genius figures out that if we nationalize the whole thing, we could hide the spending inside the voluminous budgets nobody ever reads, and charge the same money now charged as loan payments through taxes, and everybody would be so happy for their "free" education. > The poster to whom your responding points out that their loan debt is so large that they will not have the opportunity to have an income similar to those who graduated with similar credentials If the price is too high, maybe it's time to stop buying and look for a different solution? Instead of declaring upfront "our aim is for everybody to buy X, no matter the price" and then acting surprised when the price of X is shooting up? > By no means does this make the Citizens United decision less important Oh, CU decision is very important. It recognized that if you have right to criticize Hillary Clinton privately, you also have right to criticize her collectively, i.e. band together with similar-minded people and create an organization dedicated to that goal. The alternative would be late-Soviet type of political life - where you could say a lot of things while you are in your own kitchen, but once you get out in public and try to make a difference, the state would control what you can say and how you can say it. I agree, it is a very important decision that confirmed citizens' right exist even if they start become a nuisance to the powerful people, and not only when they are inconsequential. > Citizens United has allowed corporations more weight to their voice then most of the US citizenry, Corporations are US citizenry (well, then can have foreign shareholders, but it's largely insignificant given US economy size dominates the rest so much). Who you think they are made of, Martians? > Citizens United has allowed corporations more weight to their voice then most of the US citizenry, What are "corporate interests" and why should we fear them?

smsm42 9y ago

> I don't think you're going to make much progress convincing those suffering from oversized student loan debt that they are the expected "economic consequences" of a policy you believe to have been misguided If they don't somehow get convinced of that, they will continue suffering, and their children would be suffering even more, until some catastrophic event forces the change of policy out of necessity. Or until some genius figures out that if we nationalize the whole thing, we could hide the spending inside the voluminous budgets nobody ever reads, and charge the same money now charged as loan payments through taxes, and everybody would be so happy for their "free" education. > The poster to whom your responding points out that their loan debt is so large that they will not have the opportunity to have an income similar to those who graduated with similar credentials If the price is too high, maybe it's time to stop buying and look for a different solution? Instead of declaring upfront "our aim is for everybody to buy X, no matter the price" and then acting surprised when the price of X is shooting up? > By no means does this make the Citizens United decision less important Oh, CU decision is very important. It recognized that if you have right to criticize Hillary Clinton privately, you also have right to criticize her collectively, i.e. band together with similar-minded people and create an organization dedicated to that goal. The alternative would be late-Soviet type of political life - where you could say a lot of things while you are in your own kitchen, but once you get out in public and try to make a difference, the state would control what you can say and how you can say it. I agree, it is a very important decision that confirmed citizens' right exist even if they start become a nuisance to the powerful people, and not only when they are inconsequential. > Citizens United has allowed corporations more weight to their voice then most of the US citizenry, Corporations are US citizenry (well, then can have foreign shareholders, but it's largely insignificant given US economy size dominates the rest so much). Who you think they are made of, Martians? > Citizens United has allowed corporations more weight to their voice then most of the US citizenry, What are "corporate interests" and why should we fear them?