7 ms·

Does anyone who has studied this in depth know: How much of the lost weight is muscle mass?

by stcredzero 9y ago

grnadav1 9y ago
Given that top body builders are vegans, I'd guess - not much
- serg_chernata 9y ago
  Gonna need a source on that.
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    I somehow doubt you'll get one. A quick Google search suggests they exist, but they're hardly a large portion of the overall bodybuilding community.
    - serg_chernata 9y ago
      Oh I know, I just wanted him to answer that. :)
      - coldtea 9y ago
        Why though? He didn't say that "Given that ALL/MOST top body builders are vegans", but that "Given that top body builders are vegans". And indeed there are some. Which points that there's no necessary connection between being vegan and losing muscle.
        Mz 9y ago
        It would be seriously cool, though, if anyone here could leave a link as a citation to any article, tweet, FB page, whatevs that shows even one top body builder who is vegan as back up for the claim.
        coldtea 9y ago
        Because Google is too difficult? (note to self: cut down snark)... http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/ http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/
        Mz 9y ago
        Google is a thing? (note to self: quit trying to crack jokes on HN) ;-)
        kbutler 9y ago
        He also didn't say "Given that SOME top body builders are vegans". Top body builders eat meat. Top body builders do not eat meat. The implication is "The top body builders", but yes, there's wiggle room for when someone challenges the statement.
  - gxs 9y ago
    Seriously, no need to be so sensationalist. All comment had to say is some top body builders are vegan. Even some notable NFL players are/have been vegan. Even then, they go out of their way to get enough protein - I think the person you replied to was trying to go for shock value but it was a pretty bad comment.
  - tdist 9y ago
    Here are some [1]. These are however not selected to be 'top' athletes, as far as I know. I imagine that diet is irrelevant for athletic training, as long as it fulfills certain macro-nutrient requisites. Further, I image vegan athletes are only faced with the increased difficulty of finding and preparing quality sufficient food, compared to others with normative diets, due to lack of demand and meat centered cultures. Finding an equivalent vegan alternative to chocolate pudding at <500g, 350kcal, 50g protein> for $2.5 [2] seems like a challenge. I'm sure that if they plan their diet, they can meet the same targets - whereas normative diets don't require you to plan anything really. You can just eat 2 of [2] and a chicken a day, and you're done (concerning only protein). But then again, there are protein powders which balances it out, if we don't take price into account. All in all, I think diet choices (assuming any choice to be a most healthy variant of chosen diet) mainly impacts long term health, and not short term goals such as muscle gains. [1] http://www.greatveganathletes.com/strength http://www.greatveganathletes.com/strength [2] http://www.njie.se/produkt/propud-protein-pudding-chocolate/?lang=en http://www.njie.se/produkt/propud-protein-pudding-chocolate/...
- capkutay 9y ago
  The world's top body builders are certainly not vegan across the board...for example the actor/competing body builder who plays The Mountain on Game of Thrones consumes almost 2000 grams of animal fat daily[0]. Also no one should emulate top body builder diets unless they plan on working out like top body builders (e.g. 2-3 intensive training sessions a day). You might be able to find a few vegan body builders but its certainly not the norm. 0: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-workout-2016-4/#drink-a-lot-of-water-throughout-the-day--juices-to-get-more-calories-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-...
- gozur88 9y ago
  How many of those vegan body builders don't take massive doses of anabolic steroids?
panglott 9y ago
The actual study (linked above) examined subcutaneous and subfascial fat distribution, not weight loss or muscle mass.
1001101 9y ago
More in the vegetarian diet, FTS: "The greater weight loss in V was accompanied by greater muscle loss in V (−5.0 cm2 [95% CI, −5.7 to −4.3] in V vs −1.7 cm2 [95% CI, −2.4 to −1.0] in C; Gxt p < 0.0001; Fig. 2B), which was reversed partially in V after the addition of exercise (+1.3 cm2 [95% CI, 0.7 to −2.0]; p < 0.05" and "Our data stress the importance of exercise in weight loss programs to preserve lean mass." I will have been vegan for 10 years next Jan. Haven't had any problems with retaining muscle mass personally, although I have a pretty high protein diet and supplement with vegan vitamins. I do cardio a handful of times a week, and lift weights periodically. Sample size N=1 :)
jackmott 9y ago
The whole idea that eating vegetarian will lead to a less muscular physique is just completely unfounded. There are elite athletes that are vegetarians who make no special effort to get protein. (citation: my wife was one). My build didn't change when going vegetarian. It just isn't a thing. it isn't a magic pill for weight loss either.
- yathern 9y ago
  I have no horse in this race - but another anecdote is Tom Brady - who recently mentioned how he has a mostly vegetarian diet, except some chicken in the winter. Granted, Quarterbacks don't put on nearly the same muscle mass as other positions - in terms of overall fitness, you can't deny Tom Brady is in very good shape.
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  Throwing another anecdote on the pile: I've been vegetarian for 2 years and have zero perceptible changes to weight or muscle mass (I don't take supplements either).
  - chillingeffect 9y ago
    another anecdote here: I went pescatarian 1.5 years ago and have put on 10-20 pounds. It's really been hard (for me) to feel full without those chicken breasts I used to make and the occasional steak. Fish simply doesn't keep as long. I end up eating lots of junk food :( I don't think it's a bad idea. I just need to get more prepared, clever and disciplined. I actually wasn't looking to lose weight at all, just be healthier. It's been a surprise how hard it is to get back to my original weight.
    - accountyaccount 9y ago
      Preparation is key for me. It's so easy to backpedal into junk food if you don't have a healthier alternative ready to go. There's just so much junk out there. I do meal/snack prep on Sundays, which goes a long way. I eat less grab-and-go junk and I save money too.
code_duck 9y ago
It seems you're assuming that there would be a difference in that compared to any other diet, and that it has something to do with nutrition and protein. If you check out protein powders in stores, which are made with pure protein isolates and often have their specific amino acid content listed, almost all of them are vegetarian and most are vegan - pea, whey, pumpkin seed, and soy, mostly.

Does anyone who has studied this in depth know: How much of the lost weight is muscle mass?

grnadav1 9y ago

Given that top body builders are vegans, I'd guess - not much

serg_chernata 9y ago
Gonna need a source on that.
- zzalpha 9y ago
  I somehow doubt you'll get one. A quick Google search suggests they exist, but they're hardly a large portion of the overall bodybuilding community.
  - serg_chernata 9y ago
    Oh I know, I just wanted him to answer that. :)
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Why though? He didn't say that "Given that ALL/MOST top body builders are vegans", but that "Given that top body builders are vegans". And indeed there are some. Which points that there's no necessary connection between being vegan and losing muscle.
      - Mz 9y ago
        It would be seriously cool, though, if anyone here could leave a link as a citation to any article, tweet, FB page, whatevs that shows even one top body builder who is vegan as back up for the claim.
        coldtea 9y ago
        Because Google is too difficult? (note to self: cut down snark)... http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/ http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/
        Mz 9y ago
        Google is a thing? (note to self: quit trying to crack jokes on HN) ;-)
      - kbutler 9y ago
        He also didn't say "Given that SOME top body builders are vegans". Top body builders eat meat. Top body builders do not eat meat. The implication is "The top body builders", but yes, there's wiggle room for when someone challenges the statement.
- gxs 9y ago
  Seriously, no need to be so sensationalist. All comment had to say is some top body builders are vegan. Even some notable NFL players are/have been vegan. Even then, they go out of their way to get enough protein - I think the person you replied to was trying to go for shock value but it was a pretty bad comment.
- tdist 9y ago
  Here are some [1]. These are however not selected to be 'top' athletes, as far as I know. I imagine that diet is irrelevant for athletic training, as long as it fulfills certain macro-nutrient requisites. Further, I image vegan athletes are only faced with the increased difficulty of finding and preparing quality sufficient food, compared to others with normative diets, due to lack of demand and meat centered cultures. Finding an equivalent vegan alternative to chocolate pudding at <500g, 350kcal, 50g protein> for $2.5 [2] seems like a challenge. I'm sure that if they plan their diet, they can meet the same targets - whereas normative diets don't require you to plan anything really. You can just eat 2 of [2] and a chicken a day, and you're done (concerning only protein). But then again, there are protein powders which balances it out, if we don't take price into account. All in all, I think diet choices (assuming any choice to be a most healthy variant of chosen diet) mainly impacts long term health, and not short term goals such as muscle gains. [1] http://www.greatveganathletes.com/strength http://www.greatveganathletes.com/strength [2] http://www.njie.se/produkt/propud-protein-pudding-chocolate/?lang=en http://www.njie.se/produkt/propud-protein-pudding-chocolate/...
capkutay 9y ago
The world's top body builders are certainly not vegan across the board...for example the actor/competing body builder who plays The Mountain on Game of Thrones consumes almost 2000 grams of animal fat daily[0]. Also no one should emulate top body builder diets unless they plan on working out like top body builders (e.g. 2-3 intensive training sessions a day). You might be able to find a few vegan body builders but its certainly not the norm. 0: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-workout-2016-4/#drink-a-lot-of-water-throughout-the-day--juices-to-get-more-calories-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-...
gozur88 9y ago
How many of those vegan body builders don't take massive doses of anabolic steroids?

panglott 9y ago

The actual study (linked above) examined subcutaneous and subfascial fat distribution, not weight loss or muscle mass.

1001101 9y ago

More in the vegetarian diet, FTS: "The greater weight loss in V was accompanied by greater muscle loss in V (−5.0 cm2 [95% CI, −5.7 to −4.3] in V vs −1.7 cm2 [95% CI, −2.4 to −1.0] in C; Gxt p < 0.0001; Fig. 2B), which was reversed partially in V after the addition of exercise (+1.3 cm2 [95% CI, 0.7 to −2.0]; p < 0.05" and "Our data stress the importance of exercise in weight loss programs to preserve lean mass." I will have been vegan for 10 years next Jan. Haven't had any problems with retaining muscle mass personally, although I have a pretty high protein diet and supplement with vegan vitamins. I do cardio a handful of times a week, and lift weights periodically. Sample size N=1 :)

jackmott 9y ago

The whole idea that eating vegetarian will lead to a less muscular physique is just completely unfounded. There are elite athletes that are vegetarians who make no special effort to get protein. (citation: my wife was one). My build didn't change when going vegetarian. It just isn't a thing. it isn't a magic pill for weight loss either.

yathern 9y ago
I have no horse in this race - but another anecdote is Tom Brady - who recently mentioned how he has a mostly vegetarian diet, except some chicken in the winter. Granted, Quarterbacks don't put on nearly the same muscle mass as other positions - in terms of overall fitness, you can't deny Tom Brady is in very good shape.
accountyaccount 9y ago
Throwing another anecdote on the pile: I've been vegetarian for 2 years and have zero perceptible changes to weight or muscle mass (I don't take supplements either).
- chillingeffect 9y ago
  another anecdote here: I went pescatarian 1.5 years ago and have put on 10-20 pounds. It's really been hard (for me) to feel full without those chicken breasts I used to make and the occasional steak. Fish simply doesn't keep as long. I end up eating lots of junk food :( I don't think it's a bad idea. I just need to get more prepared, clever and disciplined. I actually wasn't looking to lose weight at all, just be healthier. It's been a surprise how hard it is to get back to my original weight.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    Preparation is key for me. It's so easy to backpedal into junk food if you don't have a healthier alternative ready to go. There's just so much junk out there. I do meal/snack prep on Sundays, which goes a long way. I eat less grab-and-go junk and I save money too.

code_duck 9y ago

It seems you're assuming that there would be a difference in that compared to any other diet, and that it has something to do with nutrition and protein. If you check out protein powders in stores, which are made with pure protein isolates and often have their specific amino acid content listed, almost all of them are vegetarian and most are vegan - pea, whey, pumpkin seed, and soy, mostly.