> They're decent programs in that they get a untrained individual to put up enough weight to get themselves out of a horribly weak position but they don't teach

> They're decent programs in that they get a untrained individual to put up enough weight to get themselves out of a horribly weak position but they don't teach anything meaningful for long term. Other programs achieve the necessary linear progression that is capable during your noob gains without having stupid programming quirks that lifters need to unlearn when they move onto intermediate programs. I think here I have to argue on the side of "done is better than perfect". StrongLifts/SS are both programs with tons of resources, massive communities and scores of Youtube videos with technique, tips and reviews. StrongLifts actually has a very high-quality, ad-free app (supported only by in-app purchases) that tracks your progress, tells you how long to rest between sets and handles the de-load and other programming quirks for you. In-app purchase also unlocks accessory lifts, which the app will then track for you. Most importantly, StrongLifts/SS will keep the median person with no knowledge of lifting occupied for at least a year while they build up strength, confidence and knowledge about strength training. It gets them into the rhythm of lifting 3x/week, eating and sleeping right. At that point, they may be better informed and more able to separate signal from noise about all the other programs out there that might better suit their needs. I'd much rather unlearn programming quirks than bad form. Both programs place strong emphasis on learning good form. That's what a lot of the deload and wheel spinning is often about in my experience; you get more training hours under your belt and improve your technique. IMO this is important for people who just haven't lifted that much in their lives and don't have the muscle memory and feel for body position and form that more experienced lifters have.