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Vegetarian Diets May Be More Effective for Weight Loss Than Restricting Calories
- dpflan 9y agoThe MSN page is pretty distracting (maybe it needs an ad/sponsored-content removal diet :)) - here is the linked article which has a pretty good summary (probably as good the MSN article) at the top of the page: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07315724.2017.1302367 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07315724.2017.13...
- panglott 9y ago"The aim of our study was to compare the effects of a vegetarian and a conventional diet on thigh adipose tissue distribution in subjects with type 2 diabetes (T2D)." The broader conclusion seems plausible to me, since a healthy vegetarian diet can have lots of high-fiber foods that give high satiation with relatively low calories. But: The study focused only on diabetic patients.
- stcredzero 9y agoDoes anyone who has studied this in depth know: How much of the lost weight is muscle mass?
- grnadav1 9y agoGiven that top body builders are vegans, I'd guess - not much
- serg_chernata 9y agoGonna need a source on that.
- zzalpha 9y agoI somehow doubt you'll get one. A quick Google search suggests they exist, but they're hardly a large portion of the overall bodybuilding community.
- serg_chernata 9y agoOh I know, I just wanted him to answer that. :)
- coldtea 9y agoWhy though? He didn't say that "Given that ALL/MOST top body builders are vegans", but that "Given that top body builders are vegans". And indeed there are some. Which points that there's no necessary connection between being vegan and losing muscle.
- Mz 9y agoIt would be seriously cool, though, if anyone here could leave a link as a citation to any article, tweet, FB page, whatevs that shows even one top body builder who is vegan as back up for the claim.
- coldtea 9y agoBecause Google is too difficult? (note to self: cut down snark)... http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/ http://pulptastic.com/beef-up-without-beef/
- Mz 9y agoGoogle is a thing? (note to self: quit trying to crack jokes on HN) ;-)
- kbutler 9y ago
- capkutay 9y agoThe world's top body builders are certainly not vegan across the board...for example the actor/competing body builder who plays The Mountain on Game of Thrones consumes almost 2000 grams of animal fat daily[0]. Also no one should emulate top body builder diets unless they plan on working out like top body builders (e.g. 2-3 intensive training sessions a day). You might be able to find a few vegan body builders but its certainly not the norm. 0: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-workout-2016-4/#drink-a-lot-of-water-throughout-the-day--juices-to-get-more-calories-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mountain-game-of-thrones-...
- gozur88 9y agoHow many of those vegan body builders don't take massive doses of anabolic steroids?
- panglott 9y agoThe actual study (linked above) examined subcutaneous and subfascial fat distribution, not weight loss or muscle mass.
- 1001101 9y agoMore in the vegetarian diet, FTS: "The greater weight loss in V was accompanied by greater muscle loss in V (−5.0 cm2 [95% CI, −5.7 to −4.3] in V vs −1.7 cm2 [95% CI, −2.4 to −1.0] in C; Gxt p < 0.0001; Fig. 2B), which was reversed partially in V after the addition of exercise (+1.3 cm2 [95% CI, 0.7 to −2.0]; p < 0.05" and "Our data stress the importance of exercise in weight loss programs to preserve lean mass." I will have been vegan for 10 years next Jan. Haven't had any problems with retaining muscle mass personally, although I have a pretty high protein diet and supplement with vegan vitamins. I do cardio a handful of times a week, and lift weights periodically. Sample size N=1 :)
- jackmott 9y agoThe whole idea that eating vegetarian will lead to a less muscular physique is just completely unfounded. There are elite athletes that are vegetarians who make no special effort to get protein. (citation: my wife was one). My build didn't change when going vegetarian. It just isn't a thing. it isn't a magic pill for weight loss either.
- yathern 9y agoI have no horse in this race - but another anecdote is Tom Brady - who recently mentioned how he has a mostly vegetarian diet, except some chicken in the winter. Granted, Quarterbacks don't put on nearly the same muscle mass as other positions - in terms of overall fitness, you can't deny Tom Brady is in very good shape.
- accountyaccount 9y agoThrowing another anecdote on the pile: I've been vegetarian for 2 years and have zero perceptible changes to weight or muscle mass (I don't take supplements either).
- chillingeffect 9y agoanother anecdote here: I went pescatarian 1.5 years ago and have put on 10-20 pounds. It's really been hard (for me) to feel full without those chicken breasts I used to make and the occasional steak. Fish simply doesn't keep as long. I end up eating lots of junk food :( I don't think it's a bad idea. I just need to get more prepared, clever and disciplined. I actually wasn't looking to lose weight at all, just be healthier. It's been a surprise how hard it is to get back to my original weight.
- accountyaccount 9y agoPreparation is key for me. It's so easy to backpedal into junk food if you don't have a healthier alternative ready to go. There's just so much junk out there. I do meal/snack prep on Sundays, which goes a long way. I eat less grab-and-go junk and I save money too.
- code_duck 9y agoIt seems you're assuming that there would be a difference in that compared to any other diet, and that it has something to do with nutrition and protein. If you check out protein powders in stores, which are made with pure protein isolates and often have their specific amino acid content listed, almost all of them are vegetarian and most are vegan - pea, whey, pumpkin seed, and soy, mostly.
- jtwebman 9y agoI have been on a whole food no oil starch based vegan diet eating mostly potatoes and some other veggies with no fat for 5 months. I have lost 43 pounds eating as much as I wanted. I have done only a little exercise walking a little more but nothing crazy. I feel like I am 21 again though I turned 41 this weekend. The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall is a great book. Also this video that just came out has a bunch of studies that I read before going on the diet. He does a good job at explaining them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHfbqodBXdw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHfbqodBXdw
- FungalRaincloud 9y agoCounterpoint here: I went on a ketogenic, high fat, medium protein, low carb diet this past year, and managed to lose roughly the same amount in probably the same amount of time (if not less), doing basically the same thing. I ate what I wanted. I got full a lot faster, though. I also felt like I had more energy and suffered less brain fog while on the diet. I'll likely go back on it pretty soon here.
- jtwebman 9y agoYou can lose weight on it but you are really tricking your body into starvation. Also it does nothing to help with our number one killer in the US, heart disease. It really isn't healthy for you and most people gain all the weight back. Here is a good video on it as well. He does a way better job at explaining it with links to all the sources he brings up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzHLAqyO7PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzHLAqyO7PQ
- sov 9y ago> but you are really tricking your body into starvation. Our bodies are not organisms that may be deceived. Thus, you are not "tricking" your body--it's simply utilizing a separate, historically common, metabolic pathway. > Also it does nothing to help with our number one killer in the US, heart disease I'm afraid you're mistaken. Most ketogenic studies and reports I've read pretty decisively say that the main predictors of heart disease improve dramatically on a ketogenic diet. LDL, HDL, and triglycerides all tend to improve. > It really isn't healthy for you You're mistaken. > and most people gain all the weight back Most people gain most of the weight back, as per any diet ever. Do you think your starch-based diet is immune to this effect? I have a very "whatever works" opinion on dieting. Your starch diet works for you, a ketogenic diet works for others, and that seems okay.
- intopieces 9y agoCould the result, if validated, also be attributed to the reduction of antibiotics consumed by the ones on the diet? http://www.berkeleywellness.com/healthy-eating/food/food-safety/article/are-antibiotics-food-making-people-fat http://www.berkeleywellness.com/healthy-eating/food/food-saf...
- dreen 9y ago74 subjects over 6 months? Is that even a meaningful sample? Especially considering all the other factors like stress levels etc...
- coldtea 9y agoSounds way higher than most such studies, so I'd say yes.
- mnm1 9y agoMaybe the specific vegetarian diet used here leads to that conclusion, but extrapolating it to all vegetarian diets or vegetarian diets in general is not science and it's not a conclusion they can make. I wish it was true, but experience, common sense, and actual science tells otherwise. So the headline should be "Some Vegetarian Diets May Be More Effective for Weight Loss Than Some Non-Vegetarian Diets." Because there's plenty of counter examples otherwise. Well, no shit. The corollary is also true: "Some Non-Vegetarian Diets May Be More Effective for Weight Loss Than Some Vegetarian Diets."
- joelrunyon 9y agoThis. An all "oreo" diet, could technically be a vegetarian diet.
- rangersanger 9y agoVegan, even.
- SomeHacker44 9y agoYou can't have a vegan all-Oreo diet... Oreos and milk forever go together!
- piva00 9y agoEmbrace the goodness that is oat milk! Or almond milk. I'm not even a strict vegetarian, just try to eat meat as little as possible but these taste much better for me nowadays than cow milk, I'm not used to it anymore and it tastes weird.
- mrspeaker 9y agoI laughed out loud when I read that headline... I'm a vegetarian and am sitting here munching on some sickening off-brand potato-chips that I'm pretty sure will kill me if I finish the packet. No animal products though.
- simonsarris 9y agoIt's really "Vegetarian Diets May Be More Effective for Weight Loss" for people who have Type 2 diabetes AKA are already eating very unhealthy diets, and versus the control group eating diet X. That's two separate enormous caveats. I want to see a vegetarian diet for weight loss vs a high fat high protein meat based diet, a la: http://www.empiri.ca/p/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat.html http://www.empiri.ca/p/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat.ht... > The vegetarian diet (∼60% of energy from carbohydrates, 15% protein, and 25% fat) consisted of vegetables, grains, legumes, fruits, and nuts. Animal products were limited to a maximum of one portion of low-fat yogurt a day. > [non veg diet] contained 50% of energy from carbohydrates, 20% protein, less than 30% fat (≤7% saturated fat, less than 200 mg/d of cholesterol/day). What is less than 30% fat? Were they encouraged to eat low fat foods? Were some of them eating only 10% fat? To any high fat/keto/low carb adherents, these sound like crap diets.
- panglott 9y agoIt's hard to read a ketogenic diet page that begins with a long disclaimer about you only you are responsible for your health and diet and "we can't take any responsibility for the consequences", and then conclude that the result represent good advice for the overall health of average people. Normal people are not going to tune their diet by measuring their blood chemistry. Edit to say that the point may be that those diets were broadly comparable except in consumption of animal foods; the vegetarian diet was modestly higher and lower in protein and fat, but not by much.
- undersuit 9y ago>Normal people are not going to tune their diet by measuring their blood chemistry. Not consciously, but that's what normal people already do.
- logicallee 9y agoIn my experience the most effective diet of all is vegan, non-GMO, gluten-free. Not that there's anything special about that combination, but good luck scrounging together more than a handful of calories in the course of each day about town! EDIT: what I mean is if society had such options plentifully available it would negate the effect. So it is similar to a diet where you can only eat foods beginning with the letter 'A'. If it's harder to meet some arbitrary criterion, it will reduce your caloric intake.
- MisterBastahrd 9y agoHere's what I've learned about diets over the past 5 years, anecdotally: Being conscientious about what you eat is the most important part of losing weight. There are plenty of fat vegetarians out there. They've gotten very comfortable with what they can eat because they aren't reading every label anymore. Oreos are vegan. There are new and improved vegetarian and vegan ice creams coming out weekly, it seems. When there are as many bad food choices for vegetarians and vegans as omnivores, they'll make the same bad food choices and suffer for it. Why? When the final word is written on how diets have destroyed the health of people in the Western world, it's gonna be the fat / sugar combo that is shown to be the culprit. It's much easier to be sated if you eat a lot of fats or a lot of sugar (well, starches, really) than eating a lot of fat AND sugar.
- jeffdavis 9y agoWe have a tendancy to try to isolate variables, like "meat is bad" or "carbs are bad". There are probably multiple diets that work, but not all of the combinations. I suspect that we have so much choice today that we combine things not meant to be combined in the same diet.
- GhostVII 9y agoWouldn't it be more likely thay the vegitarian diets are better at restricting calories than non-vegetarian diets? In general you can't lose weight without reducing calorie intake until it is lower than the amount you use
- Simulacra 9y agoDoes not one lead to the other? A diet that is vegetarian would seem to have less calories overall. What a strange headline.
- undersuit 9y agoWhy would a vegetarian diet have less calories? I could eat cups of rice drowned in olive oil and suck down a gallon of Coca Cola a day and I'd still be Vegan.
- epmaybe 9y agoIt's less dense, so you generally feel more full than if you eat more dense foods like meats. That's just personal experience though.
- undersuit 9y agoA pound of rice and a pound of meat contain equivalent calories. I do agree with your experience though. Throw a bit of squash and onions in with your bland rice and you'll feel bloated in no time.
- epmaybe 9y agoBut a pound of rice takes up more physical volume than a pound of meat, right? I also would have thought that meat was more energy sense given the fat content, but that is fascinating!