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> Am I the only one who gets the niggling feeling that anyone who uses the words "males" and "females" in their public dissertations like it's normal to refer t

> Am I the only one who gets the niggling feeling that anyone who uses the words "males" and "females" in their public dissertations like it's normal to refer to people the same way one does cable connectors must have a tenuous and possibly weakening grip on the real world? I hope you are, because I don't think your "niggling feeling" has any rational basis. If you want to indicate the gender of a person, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the terms "male" or "female". I guess I need to clarify that I'm using the term "gender" in the traditional, biological sense of the word, rather than the current fashionable sense that vicious scolds and busybodies insist that everyone must use.

nxc18 9y ago
The preferred usage (I'm told) is that man/woman is used for gender and male/female is used for sex. Gender is largely limited to humans, but humans also have a biological sex that is both difficult to ascertain in some cases and also completely irrelevant to most discussions around the workplace. This also leaves open that there is room for more genders while leaving sex as a somewhat resolved issue.
- rhapsodic 9y ago
  >The preferred usage (I'm told) is that man/woman is used for gender and male/female is used for sex. Gender is largely limited to humans, but humans also have a biological sex that is both difficult to ascertain in some cases and also completely irrelevant to most discussions around the workplace. >This also leaves open that there is room for more genders while leaving sex as a somewhat resolved issue. Until relatively recently, the terms "gender" and "sex" meant essentially the same thing and could be used interchangeably. But these days, a small, but very vocal, vicious and vindictive segment of the population has decided that their definition of the word "gender" is the only one that is acceptable in public forums, so they deploy tactics ranging from public shaming to career destruction to enforce their own cultural taboos. If someone wants to hold the unscientific (and IMO weird) view that, for example, "otherkin" is a gender, that is perfectly fine by me. I'm not going to try to stop them or convince them they're wrong. What is not fine by me is any assertion that I may no longer use the term "gender" in its traditional (and IMO correct) sense of the word.
  - d3ad1ysp0rk 9y ago
    "vocal, vicious and vindictive" are the words you use to describe people who are saying "Respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way".
    - rhapsodic 9y ago
      >"vocal, vicious and vindictive" are the words you use to describe people who are saying "Respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way". You left off the "or we will destroy you personally and professionally" part. Those are the people whom I describe as "vocal, vicious and vindictive".
      - creepydata 9y ago
        This isn't new, being needlessly rude has always destroyed you personally and professionally. I know a guy who lost his job for calling a coworker "Sugar Tits." I would not describe his boss as "vocal, vicious and vindictive" for firing him. If you are polite to others and "respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way" you will have no issues. If you're being a dick you can be expected to be called out for being a dick, we live in a polite society, this is how these things work.
        rhapsodic 9y ago
        >If you're being a dick you can be expected to be called out for being a dick, we live in a polite society, this is how these things work. True enough. And I happen to think that people who are trying to establish that referring to men as "male" and women as "female" are violating the rules of polite society are giant, throbbing dicks. So I'm going to call them out.
        creepydata 9y ago
        And I can say "people who take offensive to being called 'Sugar Tits' by their coworkers are giant, throbbing dicks" but that is completely irrelevant because we live in a society where that's not appropriate behavior. There can be consequences for violating social norms, this isn't a difficult concept.
rayiner 9y ago
> If you want to indicate the gender of a person, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the terms "male" or "female". In English, "man" and "woman" are the preferred terms for male and female humans, respectively. "Male" and "female" are clinical and dehumanizing. It's like saying "Laura is gestating an embryo" instead of saying "Laura is going to have a baby." They're also just grammatically weird, because they're adjectives that have been turned into nouns. It's like saying "Ben is a Hispanic" instead of "Ben is a Hispanic person." Finally, they're one letter longer for no benefit. Neither of the reasons people use "male" and "female" instead of "man" and "woman" are any good. The first is attempting to sound educated by using French-derived words like male and female in preference to German-derived words like man and woman. The second is that "male" and "female" punt on having to refer to the person's age, and in our era of perpetual adolescence people are terrified of being considered a "man" or a "woman."
- rhapsodic 9y ago
  >In English, "man" and "woman" are the preferred terms for male and female humans, respectively. "Male" and "female" are clinical and dehumanizing. It's like saying "Laura is gestating an embryo" instead of saying "Laura is going to have a baby." They're also just grammatically weird, because they're adjectives that have been turned into nouns. It's like saying "Ben is a Hispanic" instead of "Ben is a Hispanic person." Finally, they're one letter longer for no benefit. Neither of the reasons people use "male" and "female" instead of "man" and "woman" are any good. The first is attempting to sound educated by using French-derived words like male and female in preference to German-derived words like man and woman. The second is that "male" and "female" punt on having to refer to the person's age, and in our era of perpetual adolescence people are terrified of being considered a "man" or a "woman." No offense, rayiner, but I think everything you wrote is simply ridiculous on its face. Saying they're "clinical and dehumanizing" or "grammatically weird" are simply your opinion, which I do not share. And saying that "they're one letter longer for no benefit" just smacks of desperation. If you want to indicate the gender of a person, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the terms "male" or "female". But, as evidenced by this thread, there are people who want to make that usage taboo.
  - 9y ago
Sir_Substance 9y ago
>I hope you are, because I don't think your "niggling feeling" has any rational basis. How frequently do you hear a friend, colleague or family member use the phrase "I met a new male/female the other day"? This is deeply abnormal language use. It's perfectly rational to assume that such abnormal language use might be the product of these people receiving limited exposure to normal, healthy society.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

nxc18 9y ago

The preferred usage (I'm told) is that man/woman is used for gender and male/female is used for sex. Gender is largely limited to humans, but humans also have a biological sex that is both difficult to ascertain in some cases and also completely irrelevant to most discussions around the workplace. This also leaves open that there is room for more genders while leaving sex as a somewhat resolved issue.

rhapsodic 9y ago
>The preferred usage (I'm told) is that man/woman is used for gender and male/female is used for sex. Gender is largely limited to humans, but humans also have a biological sex that is both difficult to ascertain in some cases and also completely irrelevant to most discussions around the workplace. >This also leaves open that there is room for more genders while leaving sex as a somewhat resolved issue. Until relatively recently, the terms "gender" and "sex" meant essentially the same thing and could be used interchangeably. But these days, a small, but very vocal, vicious and vindictive segment of the population has decided that their definition of the word "gender" is the only one that is acceptable in public forums, so they deploy tactics ranging from public shaming to career destruction to enforce their own cultural taboos. If someone wants to hold the unscientific (and IMO weird) view that, for example, "otherkin" is a gender, that is perfectly fine by me. I'm not going to try to stop them or convince them they're wrong. What is not fine by me is any assertion that I may no longer use the term "gender" in its traditional (and IMO correct) sense of the word.
- d3ad1ysp0rk 9y ago
  "vocal, vicious and vindictive" are the words you use to describe people who are saying "Respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way".
  - rhapsodic 9y ago
    >"vocal, vicious and vindictive" are the words you use to describe people who are saying "Respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way". You left off the "or we will destroy you personally and professionally" part. Those are the people whom I describe as "vocal, vicious and vindictive".
    - creepydata 9y ago
      This isn't new, being needlessly rude has always destroyed you personally and professionally. I know a guy who lost his job for calling a coworker "Sugar Tits." I would not describe his boss as "vocal, vicious and vindictive" for firing him. If you are polite to others and "respect the wishes of people who want to be referred to in a specific way" you will have no issues. If you're being a dick you can be expected to be called out for being a dick, we live in a polite society, this is how these things work.
      - rhapsodic 9y ago
        >If you're being a dick you can be expected to be called out for being a dick, we live in a polite society, this is how these things work. True enough. And I happen to think that people who are trying to establish that referring to men as "male" and women as "female" are violating the rules of polite society are giant, throbbing dicks. So I'm going to call them out.
        creepydata 9y ago
        And I can say "people who take offensive to being called 'Sugar Tits' by their coworkers are giant, throbbing dicks" but that is completely irrelevant because we live in a society where that's not appropriate behavior. There can be consequences for violating social norms, this isn't a difficult concept.

rayiner 9y ago

> If you want to indicate the gender of a person, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the terms "male" or "female". In English, "man" and "woman" are the preferred terms for male and female humans, respectively. "Male" and "female" are clinical and dehumanizing. It's like saying "Laura is gestating an embryo" instead of saying "Laura is going to have a baby." They're also just grammatically weird, because they're adjectives that have been turned into nouns. It's like saying "Ben is a Hispanic" instead of "Ben is a Hispanic person." Finally, they're one letter longer for no benefit. Neither of the reasons people use "male" and "female" instead of "man" and "woman" are any good. The first is attempting to sound educated by using French-derived words like male and female in preference to German-derived words like man and woman. The second is that "male" and "female" punt on having to refer to the person's age, and in our era of perpetual adolescence people are terrified of being considered a "man" or a "woman."

rhapsodic 9y ago
>In English, "man" and "woman" are the preferred terms for male and female humans, respectively. "Male" and "female" are clinical and dehumanizing. It's like saying "Laura is gestating an embryo" instead of saying "Laura is going to have a baby." They're also just grammatically weird, because they're adjectives that have been turned into nouns. It's like saying "Ben is a Hispanic" instead of "Ben is a Hispanic person." Finally, they're one letter longer for no benefit. Neither of the reasons people use "male" and "female" instead of "man" and "woman" are any good. The first is attempting to sound educated by using French-derived words like male and female in preference to German-derived words like man and woman. The second is that "male" and "female" punt on having to refer to the person's age, and in our era of perpetual adolescence people are terrified of being considered a "man" or a "woman." No offense, rayiner, but I think everything you wrote is simply ridiculous on its face. Saying they're "clinical and dehumanizing" or "grammatically weird" are simply your opinion, which I do not share. And saying that "they're one letter longer for no benefit" just smacks of desperation. If you want to indicate the gender of a person, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the terms "male" or "female". But, as evidenced by this thread, there are people who want to make that usage taboo.
- 9y ago

Sir_Substance 9y ago

>I hope you are, because I don't think your "niggling feeling" has any rational basis. How frequently do you hear a friend, colleague or family member use the phrase "I met a new male/female the other day"? This is deeply abnormal language use. It's perfectly rational to assume that such abnormal language use might be the product of these people receiving limited exposure to normal, healthy society.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]