4 ms·

No it isn't, "work" is what I do because I have to and "life" is everything else. I have no idea what sort of response you're looking for.

Kinnard 9y ago
That's how you feel. Not everyone else does. There's a pretty compelling quote from the first chapter of The Fifth Discipline: "There is also another, in some ways deeper, movement toward learning organizations, part of the evolution of industrial society. Material affluence for the majority has gradually shifted people’s orientation toward work— from what Daniel Yankelovich called an “instrumental” view of work, where work was a means to an end, to a more “sacred” view, where people seek the “intrinsic” benefits of work. “Our grandfathers worked six days a week to earn what most of us now earn by Tuesday afternoon,” says Bill O’Brien, former CEO of Hanover Insurance. “The ferment in management will continue until we build organizations that are more consistent with man’s higher aspirations beyond food, shelter and belonging. Moreover, many who share these values are now in leadership positions. I find a growing number of organizational leaders who, while still a minority, feel they are part of a profound evolution in the nature of work as a social institution. “Why can’t we do good works at work?”" Senge, Peter M. (2010-03-25). The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization (pp. 4-5). The Doubleday Religious Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
- jlangemeier 9y ago
  This doesn't really answer the main question that is being asked of you by a variety of people: What, in general terms, are you looking to define or accomplish when you're talking about an "Alternative to work/life balance?" Are you talking about altruism through the office, or is it more about time-spent between the work and the rest of life? What goal, are you looking to accomplish with this, or any, alternative? The general premise of work-life balance is finding a level of deference between the thing that makes you money and the things you get to do with that money when not attempting the goal of making the money. This interest in a different motivating factor, "good works at work," while noble is NOT an alternative to work-life balance, but a supplement. Investment in your "higher calling" may be with your church group, volunteering, donations, etc; and some offices do community outreach as parts of their team processes, but I'm not seeing it as a direct alternative to work-life balance. If YOU are wanting to motivate YOUR work through a higher purpose or need, then by all means go ahead. You're given the station to do so through the income that you are afforded through your work. But I'm very much NOT motivated to donate my time to some corporate goal of altruism, because a corporation doesn't do anything for free.
  - Kinnard 9y ago
    I don't define work as 'the thing that makes you money' or life as 'the things you get to do with that money when not attempting the goal of making the money'. Many people continue to work after they've made enough money to satisfy their needs and be comfortable hundreds of times over. (E.g. Elon Musk) But it's not limited to those people: many people do lots of work that doesn't earn any money and lots of people earn money without doing any work. Lots of people start another company after a successful exit, and I'd bet their motivation is not 'the goal of making money'. I reject those definitions. This is the sort of thinking I believe no longer works. Or at least doesn't work for me. I'm inquiring about alternatives to this.
    - BlackLink16 9y ago
      If you want to work for the sake of what you are doing and not the material gain, then it's your calling or passion.
      - Kinnard 9y ago
        Why not work that covers Maslow's entire stack by default? Material, psychological, and spiritual gain. No decoupling as a rule?
        lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
        Because 99.9999...% of the population doesn't have that as an option. The cheeky expression "they wouldn't call it work if loads of people wanted to do it" comes to mind. As a general rule, if someone (a group, etc) is willing to pay you to do something it's not something that's going to provide "psychological" or "spiritual" gains.
    - jlangemeier 9y ago
      I would reckon that most people have a different philosophy with life than the tired phrase of work-life balance; in fact, that's mainly an HR fluff phrase to cover the fact that many companies consider 50-50 as a proper 'balance.' A company or corporation inherently isn't and can't be fully altruistic, by the very nature of how a company works; it's essentially a work trade, you give them your time and labor, they give you money - they're not in the business of existential self fulfillment. You use Elon Musk as an example, but I would hazard to guess that while he may find existential fulfillment through what he does, it's not his top priority for his employees. I would venture to guess that his top goal for his employees is to have them continue to contribute to the goal of sending a rocket into space, make better batteries, etc. Existential Fulfillment is your own responsibility and no one else's, if you want to find a place that meets all of maslows needs - for you - then start a company that does that for you. But don't assume your altruism will also fulfill someone else's top spots on the maslow pyramid; because self-actualization can only come from self.
- creepydata 9y ago
  You start out with "the whole notion of 'work' is flawed." but then you admit that people have different opinions than you. So it's not "flawed" to some people.
  - Kinnard 9y ago
    Sure, that's expressive of my viewpoint which I guess is probably a minority viewpoint but I bet it will grow over the coming years.
- RUG3Y 9y ago
  Even work that you believe in and and would do for free can burn you out. The "work-life balance" idea comes from a fundamental reality that we are humans, with varied needs. We need play, we need rest, we need certain kinds of interactions with each other and with our environment in order to live happy, healthy lives. No matter what your work (or "not-work") is, it can't possibly encompass all of those things.
  - Kinnard 9y ago
    But that's a work-rest balance, no? Parents often need to 'take a break from the kids' and 'get out of the house' . . . that's a necessary balancing but not a work/life balance. I'm not opposed to balancing, I just think the necessity of alternation doesn't equate to 'work/life balance'. Does it?
    - RUG3Y 9y ago
      I feel like you're splitting hairs. If it's just a matter of terminology, what is there for us to discuss? I know that sounds blunt but I don't intend it to be rude. I feel like you can call it a work/rest balance if you want, but then you're categorizing a great many things that fall outside of "work" as "rest", while I might lump those things in with "life".

Kinnard 9y ago

That's how you feel. Not everyone else does. There's a pretty compelling quote from the first chapter of The Fifth Discipline: "There is also another, in some ways deeper, movement toward learning organizations, part of the evolution of industrial society. Material affluence for the majority has gradually shifted people’s orientation toward work— from what Daniel Yankelovich called an “instrumental” view of work, where work was a means to an end, to a more “sacred” view, where people seek the “intrinsic” benefits of work. “Our grandfathers worked six days a week to earn what most of us now earn by Tuesday afternoon,” says Bill O’Brien, former CEO of Hanover Insurance. “The ferment in management will continue until we build organizations that are more consistent with man’s higher aspirations beyond food, shelter and belonging. Moreover, many who share these values are now in leadership positions. I find a growing number of organizational leaders who, while still a minority, feel they are part of a profound evolution in the nature of work as a social institution. “Why can’t we do good works at work?”" Senge, Peter M. (2010-03-25). The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization (pp. 4-5). The Doubleday Religious Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

jlangemeier 9y ago
This doesn't really answer the main question that is being asked of you by a variety of people: What, in general terms, are you looking to define or accomplish when you're talking about an "Alternative to work/life balance?" Are you talking about altruism through the office, or is it more about time-spent between the work and the rest of life? What goal, are you looking to accomplish with this, or any, alternative? The general premise of work-life balance is finding a level of deference between the thing that makes you money and the things you get to do with that money when not attempting the goal of making the money. This interest in a different motivating factor, "good works at work," while noble is NOT an alternative to work-life balance, but a supplement. Investment in your "higher calling" may be with your church group, volunteering, donations, etc; and some offices do community outreach as parts of their team processes, but I'm not seeing it as a direct alternative to work-life balance. If YOU are wanting to motivate YOUR work through a higher purpose or need, then by all means go ahead. You're given the station to do so through the income that you are afforded through your work. But I'm very much NOT motivated to donate my time to some corporate goal of altruism, because a corporation doesn't do anything for free.
- Kinnard 9y ago
  I don't define work as 'the thing that makes you money' or life as 'the things you get to do with that money when not attempting the goal of making the money'. Many people continue to work after they've made enough money to satisfy their needs and be comfortable hundreds of times over. (E.g. Elon Musk) But it's not limited to those people: many people do lots of work that doesn't earn any money and lots of people earn money without doing any work. Lots of people start another company after a successful exit, and I'd bet their motivation is not 'the goal of making money'. I reject those definitions. This is the sort of thinking I believe no longer works. Or at least doesn't work for me. I'm inquiring about alternatives to this.
  - BlackLink16 9y ago
    If you want to work for the sake of what you are doing and not the material gain, then it's your calling or passion.
    - Kinnard 9y ago
      Why not work that covers Maslow's entire stack by default? Material, psychological, and spiritual gain. No decoupling as a rule?
      - lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
        Because 99.9999...% of the population doesn't have that as an option. The cheeky expression "they wouldn't call it work if loads of people wanted to do it" comes to mind. As a general rule, if someone (a group, etc) is willing to pay you to do something it's not something that's going to provide "psychological" or "spiritual" gains.
  - jlangemeier 9y ago
    I would reckon that most people have a different philosophy with life than the tired phrase of work-life balance; in fact, that's mainly an HR fluff phrase to cover the fact that many companies consider 50-50 as a proper 'balance.' A company or corporation inherently isn't and can't be fully altruistic, by the very nature of how a company works; it's essentially a work trade, you give them your time and labor, they give you money - they're not in the business of existential self fulfillment. You use Elon Musk as an example, but I would hazard to guess that while he may find existential fulfillment through what he does, it's not his top priority for his employees. I would venture to guess that his top goal for his employees is to have them continue to contribute to the goal of sending a rocket into space, make better batteries, etc. Existential Fulfillment is your own responsibility and no one else's, if you want to find a place that meets all of maslows needs - for you - then start a company that does that for you. But don't assume your altruism will also fulfill someone else's top spots on the maslow pyramid; because self-actualization can only come from self.
creepydata 9y ago
You start out with "the whole notion of 'work' is flawed." but then you admit that people have different opinions than you. So it's not "flawed" to some people.
- Kinnard 9y ago
  Sure, that's expressive of my viewpoint which I guess is probably a minority viewpoint but I bet it will grow over the coming years.
RUG3Y 9y ago
Even work that you believe in and and would do for free can burn you out. The "work-life balance" idea comes from a fundamental reality that we are humans, with varied needs. We need play, we need rest, we need certain kinds of interactions with each other and with our environment in order to live happy, healthy lives. No matter what your work (or "not-work") is, it can't possibly encompass all of those things.
- Kinnard 9y ago
  But that's a work-rest balance, no? Parents often need to 'take a break from the kids' and 'get out of the house' . . . that's a necessary balancing but not a work/life balance. I'm not opposed to balancing, I just think the necessity of alternation doesn't equate to 'work/life balance'. Does it?
  - RUG3Y 9y ago
    I feel like you're splitting hairs. If it's just a matter of terminology, what is there for us to discuss? I know that sounds blunt but I don't intend it to be rude. I feel like you can call it a work/rest balance if you want, but then you're categorizing a great many things that fall outside of "work" as "rest", while I might lump those things in with "life".