4 ms·

Absolutely - I cannot emphasize enough how damaging these policies are to the organization. Not only does the noncompete piss off existing employees and stifle

Absolutely - I cannot emphasize enough how damaging these policies are to the organization. Not only does the noncompete piss off existing employees and stifle creativity, it turns off the better class of potential hires. People absolutely decline to sign these, and hiring is hard enough as is. And they don't even win when they bring it up in court; iirc, last time they tried this they wound up having to pay a full salary for the time that they wanted to prevent the ex-employee from working. I don't like to generalize, but business lawyers are soulless asshats.

1024core 9y ago
> it turns off the better class of potential hires Definitely. Hearing such stories, even if Amazon came calling tomorrow to recruit me, I'd stay away. No one wants their former employer holding a veto over future employment.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  I was offered a DevOps gig in Amazon's AI division several months ago, and asked their recruiter to never call me again (workplace treatment anecdotes, draconian employment contract requirements, etc).
  - DesiLurker 9y ago
    worst is the 2 year cliff vesting of stocks. essentially you need to survive 2 brutal reviews before you see any of that money.
    - praneshp 9y ago
      Actually not even 2. You'd need to do 3 years for a reasonable amount of those stocks to vest.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - lukeschlather 9y ago
      I don't get this criticism of Amazon. They give cash-based bonuses in the first 2 years, and then after that the cash bonuses transition to equivalent amount of stock grants. If you really want Amazon stock you're free to buy it with the cash bonus.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jach 9y ago
    I only get emails sometimes, but I end up ignoring them all because when I think about composing a reply that sums up to "bug off" I can't decide whether it'd be more effective to send all my complaints or cite just one of no free snacks, no personal side projects including games, no normal 40 hour weeks, presence of stack ranking, aggressive non-compete, or now being (at least internally) worse than Oracle. It's still surreal how I could enjoy a company so much from the customer side and yet have so much resistance to even entertaining the idea of working there...
smokey_the_bear 9y ago
My four year old's soccer coach was leaving his organization, and I asked him if he was interested in doing private lessons in my neighborhood. He said he was, but he'd signed a non compete with the local children's soccer organization. It demolished my opinion of the soccer group that they are making 22 year olds sign non competes. (I did tell him the non-compete was void in California, but he still didn't want to deal with it)
- pm24601 9y ago
  Please step up and complain to the soccer association. Tell other parents, etc. You have more bargaining power than the coach who needs the reference and the income. Please help make life better for the next coach. You can't be threatened or retaliated against.
  - brianwawok 9y ago
    He also had no power. His chance of an impact are near 0. What's his bust case, convinces one person to quit with him and costs the soccer co 32.99 A month ?
    - pm24601 9y ago
      He has more power than you seem to think. I say this based on my experience with civic activism. A surprisingly small number of people who are willing to speak up can have a large/oversized impact. Power is not granted - power is demanded/taken. One person who tells the other parents can make change happen. Your answer is the answer of learned helplessness.
BrandoElFollito 9y ago
Having to pay someone during the time of a non-compete is normal practice in France. The law states that if they're is a non-compete and payment details during this time are not part of the contract then that part is void and not enforceable. A company may decide not to enforce a non-compete (when resigning) and therefore not to pay, but it has to be done right when someone quits, not afterwards.

1024core 9y ago

> it turns off the better class of potential hires Definitely. Hearing such stories, even if Amazon came calling tomorrow to recruit me, I'd stay away. No one wants their former employer holding a veto over future employment.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
I was offered a DevOps gig in Amazon's AI division several months ago, and asked their recruiter to never call me again (workplace treatment anecdotes, draconian employment contract requirements, etc).
- DesiLurker 9y ago
  worst is the 2 year cliff vesting of stocks. essentially you need to survive 2 brutal reviews before you see any of that money.
  - praneshp 9y ago
    Actually not even 2. You'd need to do 3 years for a reasonable amount of those stocks to vest.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lukeschlather 9y ago
    I don't get this criticism of Amazon. They give cash-based bonuses in the first 2 years, and then after that the cash bonuses transition to equivalent amount of stock grants. If you really want Amazon stock you're free to buy it with the cash bonus.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Jach 9y ago
  I only get emails sometimes, but I end up ignoring them all because when I think about composing a reply that sums up to "bug off" I can't decide whether it'd be more effective to send all my complaints or cite just one of no free snacks, no personal side projects including games, no normal 40 hour weeks, presence of stack ranking, aggressive non-compete, or now being (at least internally) worse than Oracle. It's still surreal how I could enjoy a company so much from the customer side and yet have so much resistance to even entertaining the idea of working there...

smokey_the_bear 9y ago

My four year old's soccer coach was leaving his organization, and I asked him if he was interested in doing private lessons in my neighborhood. He said he was, but he'd signed a non compete with the local children's soccer organization. It demolished my opinion of the soccer group that they are making 22 year olds sign non competes. (I did tell him the non-compete was void in California, but he still didn't want to deal with it)

pm24601 9y ago
Please step up and complain to the soccer association. Tell other parents, etc. You have more bargaining power than the coach who needs the reference and the income. Please help make life better for the next coach. You can't be threatened or retaliated against.
- brianwawok 9y ago
  He also had no power. His chance of an impact are near 0. What's his bust case, convinces one person to quit with him and costs the soccer co 32.99 A month ?
  - pm24601 9y ago
    He has more power than you seem to think. I say this based on my experience with civic activism. A surprisingly small number of people who are willing to speak up can have a large/oversized impact. Power is not granted - power is demanded/taken. One person who tells the other parents can make change happen. Your answer is the answer of learned helplessness.

BrandoElFollito 9y ago

Having to pay someone during the time of a non-compete is normal practice in France. The law states that if they're is a non-compete and payment details during this time are not part of the contract then that part is void and not enforceable. A company may decide not to enforce a non-compete (when resigning) and therefore not to pay, but it has to be done right when someone quits, not afterwards.