4 ms·

Don't think I could live there, I like sunshine. Some people love living in the city because of all the amazing stuff you can do there, but it's too big (and da

Don't think I could live there, I like sunshine. Some people love living in the city because of all the amazing stuff you can do there, but it's too big (and dark in many places) for me. I wonder what NYC will look like in 200 years. Can you build higher?

pavel_lishin 9y ago
> it's too big (and dark in many places) for me. I don't know about "too big" - that's pretty subjective - but it's plenty bright right now. Summer sun means it's hot and sunny, and will probably be that way most places you live - unless you happen to live in Midtown or Fidi, you'll be walking in the sun every day. And remember, just because you're not in direct sunlight doesn't mean it's dark - most things around you will reflect light, especially the windows on buildings. Apartments, however, are a much bigger toss-up. I've lived in places where most of our windows faced the sun (not particularly fun in the summer), and I've lived in basement/garden apartments where even when the sun did peek over the neighboring rooftop to strike our windowsill, the trees above us filtered most of it out.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
NathanKP 9y ago
As much as I like the interactive map the truth is it makes things look way more shadowed than they actually are because its showing the averages of shadows from all time of the year and all times of the day. The reality is that most of the streets have a shady side and sunny side at all times of the year. It's shady on one side of the street in the morning and shady on the other side in the afternoon. This is actually great because you can choose the side of the street to walk on. If you are too hot in the summer you can go walk on the shaded side, or if you are too chilled in the spring/fall/winter you can walk on the sunny side. During the summer it is actually very nice to have a long stretch of tall buildings where you can cool off by walking on the shady side of the street. It's kind of like enjoying walking down a street that is shaded by a lot of trees, although sadly the buildings don't absorb as much heat as the trees do, and in some cases glass buildings actually seem to reflect the heat harshly.
- hammock 9y ago
  Good point. They could have projected only the shadows before noon, or separate morning/afternoon shadows with a toggle.
Nav_Panel 9y ago
> Don't think I could live there, I like sunshine I live there. My Brooklyn apartment gets ample sunlight year round. Most people don't live in these hugely sun-starved areas, they're mostly offices. That said, it can be brutal in the winter: get up, it's light out, go to work in the dark on the subway, get to work in your fluorescent-lit midtown office building where you've been fighting for a window seat for 2 years because it makes you miserable to go a full day without any sunlight, stand on a street corner for 15 minutes during your lunch break just to see the sun that day, sun goes down at 4 PM and it's dark till the next morning. Nice. That said, this is only for a month or two during the winter. My biggest problem living in NYC is, by far, noise pollution. It's next to impossible to find a place that's well and truly quiet, and I desperately need it from time to time. > Can you build higher? The current crop of large skyscrapers are facing severe difficulties[1] due to a slowdown in price increases, likely due to a slowdown in wealthy foreigners viewing Manhattan high-rises as an investment[2]. > I wonder what NYC will look like in 200 years Depends how the transit situation and global warming situation goes (i.e. assuming NYC is not mostly underwater or destroyed by hurricanes). The first elevated rail line (predating all the subways and highways) in NYC opened about 150 years ago. A New Yorker 200 years ago surely couldn't have imagined the MTA subway network nor Robert Moses' car-oriented sprawl. Similarly, it's tough to imagine the city in 200 years, but I have some guesses for 100 years... Infill will continue, and neighborhoods along subway lines will creep upward vertically, as higher and higher buildings pop up in further out neighborhoods -- this is how cities tend to grow, organically, gradually, one step at a time. My neighborhood, Bedford-Stuyvesant, is mostly 3-4 story brownstones, but I've seen a number of 7-8 story buildings appear over the last year. 1 story garages or empty lots in the neighborhood are also quickly being replaced with 3-4 story brownstone/rowhouses. If subway capacity (and demand) exists, the buildings will continue creeping up. Beyond that, transit creates neighborhoods. The hardest part of transit, at least historically, has been right-of-way. Once Moses' network of highways outlive their lifespans and must be demolished (I give it less than 50 years, these highways weren't build to last[3]), it should be straightforward to convert them to at-grade train lines that integrate with the existing subway network. This will open up vast areas of Queens and perhaps even Long Island for higher density development (assuming the zoning laws can get their shit figured out regarding density/parking requirements before that happens). In terms of working locations, I fully expect Industry City and Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City to become more important as destinations instead of the traditional Manhattan high-rise office. Manhattan? It'll probably get some fancy new buildings here and there, but I imagine in 100 years it'll still look much the same. Zoning codes make it almost impossible to build taller/better than what's already there, in many cases[4], and these things are hard to change, because often the stakeholders in the old buildings are also the ones with a lot of political clout... [1]: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/4/14157208/manhattan-real-estate-market-reports-2016 https://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/4/14157208/manhattan-real-estat... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/nyregion/stream-of-foreign-wealth-flows-to-time-warner-condos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/nyregion/stream-of-foreig... [3]: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/19/32_19_mm_bqe_meeting.html http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/19/32_19_mm_bqe_meet... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-percent-of-manhattans-buildings-could-not-be-built-today.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...
Bartweiss 9y ago
One thing to remember is that this maps direct sunlight. Skyscrapers are decently reflective, and outside the absolute darkest blocks mentioned you can expect a fair bit of diffuse lighting. Another is that New York State is just pretty dim and cloudy to begin with. The clouds can actually be nice, since they distribute light a bit better, but life in NY involves getting used to some awfully dark winters regardless.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

> it's too big (and dark in many places) for me. I don't know about "too big" - that's pretty subjective - but it's plenty bright right now. Summer sun means it's hot and sunny, and will probably be that way most places you live - unless you happen to live in Midtown or Fidi, you'll be walking in the sun every day. And remember, just because you're not in direct sunlight doesn't mean it's dark - most things around you will reflect light, especially the windows on buildings. Apartments, however, are a much bigger toss-up. I've lived in places where most of our windows faced the sun (not particularly fun in the summer), and I've lived in basement/garden apartments where even when the sun did peek over the neighboring rooftop to strike our windowsill, the trees above us filtered most of it out.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

NathanKP 9y ago

As much as I like the interactive map the truth is it makes things look way more shadowed than they actually are because its showing the averages of shadows from all time of the year and all times of the day. The reality is that most of the streets have a shady side and sunny side at all times of the year. It's shady on one side of the street in the morning and shady on the other side in the afternoon. This is actually great because you can choose the side of the street to walk on. If you are too hot in the summer you can go walk on the shaded side, or if you are too chilled in the spring/fall/winter you can walk on the sunny side. During the summer it is actually very nice to have a long stretch of tall buildings where you can cool off by walking on the shady side of the street. It's kind of like enjoying walking down a street that is shaded by a lot of trees, although sadly the buildings don't absorb as much heat as the trees do, and in some cases glass buildings actually seem to reflect the heat harshly.

hammock 9y ago
Good point. They could have projected only the shadows before noon, or separate morning/afternoon shadows with a toggle.

Nav_Panel 9y ago

> Don't think I could live there, I like sunshine I live there. My Brooklyn apartment gets ample sunlight year round. Most people don't live in these hugely sun-starved areas, they're mostly offices. That said, it can be brutal in the winter: get up, it's light out, go to work in the dark on the subway, get to work in your fluorescent-lit midtown office building where you've been fighting for a window seat for 2 years because it makes you miserable to go a full day without any sunlight, stand on a street corner for 15 minutes during your lunch break just to see the sun that day, sun goes down at 4 PM and it's dark till the next morning. Nice. That said, this is only for a month or two during the winter. My biggest problem living in NYC is, by far, noise pollution. It's next to impossible to find a place that's well and truly quiet, and I desperately need it from time to time. > Can you build higher? The current crop of large skyscrapers are facing severe difficulties[1] due to a slowdown in price increases, likely due to a slowdown in wealthy foreigners viewing Manhattan high-rises as an investment[2]. > I wonder what NYC will look like in 200 years Depends how the transit situation and global warming situation goes (i.e. assuming NYC is not mostly underwater or destroyed by hurricanes). The first elevated rail line (predating all the subways and highways) in NYC opened about 150 years ago. A New Yorker 200 years ago surely couldn't have imagined the MTA subway network nor Robert Moses' car-oriented sprawl. Similarly, it's tough to imagine the city in 200 years, but I have some guesses for 100 years... Infill will continue, and neighborhoods along subway lines will creep upward vertically, as higher and higher buildings pop up in further out neighborhoods -- this is how cities tend to grow, organically, gradually, one step at a time. My neighborhood, Bedford-Stuyvesant, is mostly 3-4 story brownstones, but I've seen a number of 7-8 story buildings appear over the last year. 1 story garages or empty lots in the neighborhood are also quickly being replaced with 3-4 story brownstone/rowhouses. If subway capacity (and demand) exists, the buildings will continue creeping up. Beyond that, transit creates neighborhoods. The hardest part of transit, at least historically, has been right-of-way. Once Moses' network of highways outlive their lifespans and must be demolished (I give it less than 50 years, these highways weren't build to last[3]), it should be straightforward to convert them to at-grade train lines that integrate with the existing subway network. This will open up vast areas of Queens and perhaps even Long Island for higher density development (assuming the zoning laws can get their shit figured out regarding density/parking requirements before that happens). In terms of working locations, I fully expect Industry City and Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City to become more important as destinations instead of the traditional Manhattan high-rise office. Manhattan? It'll probably get some fancy new buildings here and there, but I imagine in 100 years it'll still look much the same. Zoning codes make it almost impossible to build taller/better than what's already there, in many cases[4], and these things are hard to change, because often the stakeholders in the old buildings are also the ones with a lot of political clout... [1]: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/4/14157208/manhattan-real-estate-market-reports-2016 https://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/4/14157208/manhattan-real-estat... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/nyregion/stream-of-foreign-wealth-flows-to-time-warner-condos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/nyregion/stream-of-foreig... [3]: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/19/32_19_mm_bqe_meeting.html http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/19/32_19_mm_bqe_meet... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-percent-of-manhattans-buildings-could-not-be-built-today.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...

Bartweiss 9y ago

One thing to remember is that this maps direct sunlight. Skyscrapers are decently reflective, and outside the absolute darkest blocks mentioned you can expect a fair bit of diffuse lighting. Another is that New York State is just pretty dim and cloudy to begin with. The clouds can actually be nice, since they distribute light a bit better, but life in NY involves getting used to some awfully dark winters regardless.