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The Model 3 is nowhere close to an affordable car for your average car buyer e.g. Corolla owners. It's likely to be about 62,000$ here in Australia before any

The Model 3 is nowhere close to an affordable car for your average car buyer e.g. Corolla owners. It's likely to be about 62,000$ here in Australia before any options or upgrades, so that's with no autopilot and the smallest battery. Still a luxury car, in fact, with some options expensive enough to trigger the Luxury Car Tax, which kicks in at $75,525. When you can get a brand new Suzuki Swift for 15,000 you really have to ask yourself how much you care about electric.

Shivetya 9y ago
plus the model 3, like all current EVs, is still highly limited it. It makes a great commuter car but any trip requiring a recharge will quickly show you the limitations of such. Have more than one recharge and you best have the time. Figure four hours at best on road and one off; superchargers require close to an hour to full charge and add in time to and from it based on where you are going. When I mentioned "At best" EVs suffer disproportionately from the effects of cold weather, the colder the worse it gets and elevation changes aren't your friend either. I am really curious what the average pricing will be on IIIs. I do remember Tesla talking about how you could get into a S for a little over 60 yet it always seemed people just talk about the 90k and up versions.
- moron4hire 9y ago
  The Supercharge network also won't be free to use with the Model 3.
- NuDinNou 9y ago
  It has 215 miles(346 km) range. For a long distance trip I would plan a 30 min break after every ~ 300 km of driving.
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    Why? That's just a hour and a half to two hours of highway driving.
    - WorldMaker 9y ago
      Bladder. Sore/stiff muscles. Eye fatigue. People certainly love their 6+ hour non-stop drives enough to keep doing them, but my human body likes to stand up, stretch, maybe relieve itself every couple of hours.
      - TomMarius 9y ago
        Yeah, I didn't mean to drive for 6 hours straight, but at least 3 is the norm.
        secabeen 9y ago
        My experience is that the normal reality is that your first stop is after about 2.5 hours, because you leave with a 100% charge from home, then you stop about every 1.5-2 hours, depending on supercharger placement and destination. That worked out pretty well for the 6.5 hour drive that I did most recently, with two stops one way (up into the mountains), and one returning (downhill helped with range). I think it would be more impactful on 10+ hour drives, but still within the realm of reasonable. If you are someone who does 10 hour drives regularly, then EVs aren't for you.
        TomMarius 9y ago
        We should be talking about range, not hours of driving. I'm regularly driving 600km/day, but on a highway, in 160-250 km/h range (my car says that average speed of my last trip to Berlin was 218 km/h). I can't go 3 hours at this speed because I would run the battery dry, and stopping for charging prolongs the trip by at least 2 to 3 hours. Time is money, and I'd rather spend this time with my family or working, not waiting to charge. I know that EVs aren't for me, that's actually what I'm trying to show. Some people have the feeling that charging is just a little inconvenience and everyone should buy one. For someone like me, charging doubles the trip.
        WorldMaker 9y ago
        You are certainly an outlier in the discussion. There are range extended EV options (the Volt/Ampera, for instance) to at least use battery for part of the trip. It certainly doesn't have to be all or nothing right now. You are enough of an outlier you might never be satisfied, but that shouldn't stop you from trying for a middle ground.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Occasional long distance travel in a Tesla, using the superchargers, is a fine thing. A supercharger stop is generally 15-25 minutes, not an hour -- charging is fastest if you charge only enough to get to the next one. And they're conveniently placed on major travel routes. So, basically, your complaints are all things that most Tesla owners don't complain about. Almost every discussion about electric cars features a subthread with the same back and forth about these same topics. No sign of any learning. Ah well.
  - alacombe 9y ago
    This argument is a no-go here in Canada, where distance between reasonably large cities can easily range in the few hundreds kilometers.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Assuming that by "few hundred" you mean more than 400 km, sure, many countries have long trips in sparsely populated areas that aren't going to work for electric cars. That comes up in most electric car threads, too. Tesla and other EV car companies successfully sell cars in Canada, so apparently it's not all Canadians: http://www.fleetcarma.com/ev-sales-canada-2016-final/ http://www.fleetcarma.com/ev-sales-canada-2016-final/ In fact the market share of EVs in Canada is similar to the US.
      - alacombe 9y ago
        Of course, most of Canadian population lives in cities. Also, people who have the means to buy a Tesla have also the mean to have a second ICE car, thus making this a non-problem. However, commuters who have to live outside of the cities won't have that option. Heck, their apartment complex aren't even wired.
        greglindahl 9y ago
        Yes, that's also a traditional comment in every EV-related Hacker News discussion. I'd be surprised if Canada was that different than the US: some apartment complexes will install chargers because it will eventually be an important amenity (that's why I have chargers at my apartment complex), some communities will start requiring them for new construction (Palo Alto does this already), you'll find chargers installed for on-street parking (already happening various places), and eventually the government will probably mandate installing chargers in all larger parking lots (probably when EVs are a lot more popular than today.) Another place you might charge is at work. Facebook has ~ 170 chargers at their headquarters, last I looked. They're ahead of the curve, but you'll find that more and more over time.
dghughes 9y ago
It's the charging that worries me. I live in a 45 year-old house with old wiring of 120V/60Hz only the stove is 240Hz. If I got an electric vehicle I'd like to put in a 240V outside plug but cost would be nuts. But even just charging such an EV over old wires is worrying. It may cost thirty thousand to get the house rewired. Plus the liability of having a 240V outside plug may be against the building code. The weather here can really destroy anything outside. As much as I like them the "care and feeding" and overall maintenance of an EV is way beyond my means or anyone else in my minimum wage blue collar town.
- dpark 9y ago
  > But even just charging such an EV over old wires is worrying. It may cost thirty thousand to get the house rewired. Why would you rewire the house to run a 240V plug for your car? That's nuts. You'd add a dedicated 240 circuit. You're probably still looking at a a minimum of $1k and likely in the $3-5K range, especially if your panel needs to be updated/expanded, but there's no reason you'd need to rewire your whole house for this. As for the outdoor outlet, there are exterior rated outlets (and presumably exterior rated chargers). Code isn't the concern.
  - secabeen 9y ago
    Yep, you just run a fresh 240 line direct from your panel to your parking space, bypassing the aging interior wiring all-together. The plug is also not really an issue, as if you're fresh-running a line for this, you'd just hardwire a weather-resistant EVSE (like the ClipperCreek HCS-40) into that circuit, and you're golden.
    - thatwebdude 9y ago
      Assuming you have a free breaker spot. ~50 year old circuit breaker is probably already tied up 100%.
      - dpark 9y ago
        Probably $500 or so if you need a breakout panel installed. Unless you need a full panel replacement or a service upgrade, getting a spot for the breaker probably isn't prohibitively expensive.
mywittyname 9y ago
The average price of a new car is $33,560. That's much more than a Corolla and not much less than a base Model 3.

Shivetya 9y ago

plus the model 3, like all current EVs, is still highly limited it. It makes a great commuter car but any trip requiring a recharge will quickly show you the limitations of such. Have more than one recharge and you best have the time. Figure four hours at best on road and one off; superchargers require close to an hour to full charge and add in time to and from it based on where you are going. When I mentioned "At best" EVs suffer disproportionately from the effects of cold weather, the colder the worse it gets and elevation changes aren't your friend either. I am really curious what the average pricing will be on IIIs. I do remember Tesla talking about how you could get into a S for a little over 60 yet it always seemed people just talk about the 90k and up versions.

moron4hire 9y ago
The Supercharge network also won't be free to use with the Model 3.
NuDinNou 9y ago
It has 215 miles(346 km) range. For a long distance trip I would plan a 30 min break after every ~ 300 km of driving.
- TomMarius 9y ago
  Why? That's just a hour and a half to two hours of highway driving.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    Bladder. Sore/stiff muscles. Eye fatigue. People certainly love their 6+ hour non-stop drives enough to keep doing them, but my human body likes to stand up, stretch, maybe relieve itself every couple of hours.
    - TomMarius 9y ago
      Yeah, I didn't mean to drive for 6 hours straight, but at least 3 is the norm.
      - secabeen 9y ago
        My experience is that the normal reality is that your first stop is after about 2.5 hours, because you leave with a 100% charge from home, then you stop about every 1.5-2 hours, depending on supercharger placement and destination. That worked out pretty well for the 6.5 hour drive that I did most recently, with two stops one way (up into the mountains), and one returning (downhill helped with range). I think it would be more impactful on 10+ hour drives, but still within the realm of reasonable. If you are someone who does 10 hour drives regularly, then EVs aren't for you.
        TomMarius 9y ago
        We should be talking about range, not hours of driving. I'm regularly driving 600km/day, but on a highway, in 160-250 km/h range (my car says that average speed of my last trip to Berlin was 218 km/h). I can't go 3 hours at this speed because I would run the battery dry, and stopping for charging prolongs the trip by at least 2 to 3 hours. Time is money, and I'd rather spend this time with my family or working, not waiting to charge. I know that EVs aren't for me, that's actually what I'm trying to show. Some people have the feeling that charging is just a little inconvenience and everyone should buy one. For someone like me, charging doubles the trip.
        WorldMaker 9y ago
        You are certainly an outlier in the discussion. There are range extended EV options (the Volt/Ampera, for instance) to at least use battery for part of the trip. It certainly doesn't have to be all or nothing right now. You are enough of an outlier you might never be satisfied, but that shouldn't stop you from trying for a middle ground.
greglindahl 9y ago
Occasional long distance travel in a Tesla, using the superchargers, is a fine thing. A supercharger stop is generally 15-25 minutes, not an hour -- charging is fastest if you charge only enough to get to the next one. And they're conveniently placed on major travel routes. So, basically, your complaints are all things that most Tesla owners don't complain about. Almost every discussion about electric cars features a subthread with the same back and forth about these same topics. No sign of any learning. Ah well.
- alacombe 9y ago
  This argument is a no-go here in Canada, where distance between reasonably large cities can easily range in the few hundreds kilometers.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Assuming that by "few hundred" you mean more than 400 km, sure, many countries have long trips in sparsely populated areas that aren't going to work for electric cars. That comes up in most electric car threads, too. Tesla and other EV car companies successfully sell cars in Canada, so apparently it's not all Canadians: http://www.fleetcarma.com/ev-sales-canada-2016-final/ http://www.fleetcarma.com/ev-sales-canada-2016-final/ In fact the market share of EVs in Canada is similar to the US.
    - alacombe 9y ago
      Of course, most of Canadian population lives in cities. Also, people who have the means to buy a Tesla have also the mean to have a second ICE car, thus making this a non-problem. However, commuters who have to live outside of the cities won't have that option. Heck, their apartment complex aren't even wired.
      - greglindahl 9y ago
        Yes, that's also a traditional comment in every EV-related Hacker News discussion. I'd be surprised if Canada was that different than the US: some apartment complexes will install chargers because it will eventually be an important amenity (that's why I have chargers at my apartment complex), some communities will start requiring them for new construction (Palo Alto does this already), you'll find chargers installed for on-street parking (already happening various places), and eventually the government will probably mandate installing chargers in all larger parking lots (probably when EVs are a lot more popular than today.) Another place you might charge is at work. Facebook has ~ 170 chargers at their headquarters, last I looked. They're ahead of the curve, but you'll find that more and more over time.

dghughes 9y ago

It's the charging that worries me. I live in a 45 year-old house with old wiring of 120V/60Hz only the stove is 240Hz. If I got an electric vehicle I'd like to put in a 240V outside plug but cost would be nuts. But even just charging such an EV over old wires is worrying. It may cost thirty thousand to get the house rewired. Plus the liability of having a 240V outside plug may be against the building code. The weather here can really destroy anything outside. As much as I like them the "care and feeding" and overall maintenance of an EV is way beyond my means or anyone else in my minimum wage blue collar town.

dpark 9y ago
> But even just charging such an EV over old wires is worrying. It may cost thirty thousand to get the house rewired. Why would you rewire the house to run a 240V plug for your car? That's nuts. You'd add a dedicated 240 circuit. You're probably still looking at a a minimum of $1k and likely in the $3-5K range, especially if your panel needs to be updated/expanded, but there's no reason you'd need to rewire your whole house for this. As for the outdoor outlet, there are exterior rated outlets (and presumably exterior rated chargers). Code isn't the concern.
- secabeen 9y ago
  Yep, you just run a fresh 240 line direct from your panel to your parking space, bypassing the aging interior wiring all-together. The plug is also not really an issue, as if you're fresh-running a line for this, you'd just hardwire a weather-resistant EVSE (like the ClipperCreek HCS-40) into that circuit, and you're golden.
  - thatwebdude 9y ago
    Assuming you have a free breaker spot. ~50 year old circuit breaker is probably already tied up 100%.
    - dpark 9y ago
      Probably $500 or so if you need a breakout panel installed. Unless you need a full panel replacement or a service upgrade, getting a spot for the breaker probably isn't prohibitively expensive.

mywittyname 9y ago

The average price of a new car is $33,560. That's much more than a Corolla and not much less than a base Model 3.