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>complexity tends towards chaos Sure, that's a good point, but to play devil's advocate, I could also say something like: "life tends towards patterns of simil

by mowenz 9y ago

>complexity tends towards chaos Sure, that's a good point, but to play devil's advocate, I could also say something like: "life tends towards patterns of similarity" and point to anything from fractal patterns in life to similar behavioral outcomes in social strata or in culture.

nolemurs 9y ago
> life tends towards patterns of similarity I would argue that this is only true to the extent that there's a reason for the similarity. Similarities arise when they serve an adaptive purpose. And, to be fair, those clonal fish are a lot more similar than they are different. They're all still very similar looking fish! My whole point was that the authors of the paper seemed to expect the similarity to continue beyond what there's any adaptive reason for, and that's just crazy!
- mowenz 9y ago
  I think we're a bit disconnected b/c I haven't done a good job of communicating my idea. I'm not saying you don't have good ideas about what conclusion we should expect, I'm saying it's a good idea not to worry too much about such ideas in any place where we can conduct an experiment. Humans are notoriously bad at this and shouldn't do it if we have a better way (and we do, experimentation). See: Orwell wrote about the problem of arguments in an essay On Politics, which can be found in the published book (not the essay) Why I Write. He discussed the aquatic screw, and how leading figures published ideas in leading print newspapers and journals arguing both for and against its effectiveness. It was only when an experiment was conducted that we, collectively, could know well-enough to consider it fact which one worked more efficiently. Feynman said, pretty much: 'if it turns out nature is this way or that way so be it, it doesn't matter how good or how beautiful your ideas are, nature is going to come out to be the way she is, that's the beauty of science.'

by mowenz 9y ago

nolemurs 9y ago

> life tends towards patterns of similarity I would argue that this is only true to the extent that there's a reason for the similarity. Similarities arise when they serve an adaptive purpose. And, to be fair, those clonal fish are a lot more similar than they are different. They're all still very similar looking fish! My whole point was that the authors of the paper seemed to expect the similarity to continue beyond what there's any adaptive reason for, and that's just crazy!

mowenz 9y ago
I think we're a bit disconnected b/c I haven't done a good job of communicating my idea. I'm not saying you don't have good ideas about what conclusion we should expect, I'm saying it's a good idea not to worry too much about such ideas in any place where we can conduct an experiment. Humans are notoriously bad at this and shouldn't do it if we have a better way (and we do, experimentation). See: Orwell wrote about the problem of arguments in an essay On Politics, which can be found in the published book (not the essay) Why I Write. He discussed the aquatic screw, and how leading figures published ideas in leading print newspapers and journals arguing both for and against its effectiveness. It was only when an experiment was conducted that we, collectively, could know well-enough to consider it fact which one worked more efficiently. Feynman said, pretty much: 'if it turns out nature is this way or that way so be it, it doesn't matter how good or how beautiful your ideas are, nature is going to come out to be the way she is, that's the beauty of science.'