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I don't know if HR people and consultants are the solution, but denying there is a problem with diversity and inclusion in our industry requires burying your he

by drewrv 9y ago

I don't know if HR people and consultants are the solution, but denying there is a problem with diversity and inclusion in our industry requires burying your head pretty deep in the sand.

walterstucco 9y ago
We must draw a line here. If we talk about diversity it's true women are under represented in tech. If we talk about discrimination in the valley I'm quite sure that American white women are not suffering the most. At least they have the entire female American society backing them up.
bouis 9y ago
My head is not in the sand. Your head is in the sand if you say that every single tech company condones sexual harassment. It's actually an extraordinary claim that's hard to believe, but it's become so common to make bold claims about the ubiquity and universality of racism and sexism that it sounds normal to us. The idea is that if a woman is saying she likes her job as an engineer and doesn't feel mistreated, there's something wrong with that story and I'm sure she could dig a little deeper and remember a night out where somebody made an inappropriate comment, or she wasn't invited along, or she was just in some way treated differently because of her gender. If you take it that far, you're not just fixing tech company cultures, you're fixing the patriarchy, and that's not something that a bunch of consultants can fix. I think we need to be more specific about what we're trying to fix and where the problem begins and ends, otherwise we'll just put together ineffective diversity initiatives that never really gain traction. It can't be taboo to be critical about the effectiveness of diversity and inclusion programs, otherwise we'll all just wind up with our heads in the sand, hoping we aren't next on some journalist's hit list.
Chris2048 9y ago
> but denying there is a problem with diversity This is a straw man. The point is aside from whether there is a problem with D&I - but it also depends one what you mean by these terms as well.
belorn 9y ago
Where I live 90% of people work in a industry that has a problem with diversity and inclusion, with a unemployment rate that is higher for men than women. Its not a problem isolated to a single industry or even a single society. For reasons that we don't like to talk about, the wast majority of women work in industries that exclude men and the wast majority of men work in industries that exclude women. Maybe we should acknowledge the root cause here rather than picking which sand bucket we choose to bury our heads in?

by drewrv 9y ago

I don't know if HR people and consultants are the solution, but denying there is a problem with diversity and inclusion in our industry requires burying your head pretty deep in the sand.

walterstucco 9y ago

We must draw a line here. If we talk about diversity it's true women are under represented in tech. If we talk about discrimination in the valley I'm quite sure that American white women are not suffering the most. At least they have the entire female American society backing them up.

bouis 9y ago

My head is not in the sand. Your head is in the sand if you say that every single tech company condones sexual harassment. It's actually an extraordinary claim that's hard to believe, but it's become so common to make bold claims about the ubiquity and universality of racism and sexism that it sounds normal to us. The idea is that if a woman is saying she likes her job as an engineer and doesn't feel mistreated, there's something wrong with that story and I'm sure she could dig a little deeper and remember a night out where somebody made an inappropriate comment, or she wasn't invited along, or she was just in some way treated differently because of her gender. If you take it that far, you're not just fixing tech company cultures, you're fixing the patriarchy, and that's not something that a bunch of consultants can fix. I think we need to be more specific about what we're trying to fix and where the problem begins and ends, otherwise we'll just put together ineffective diversity initiatives that never really gain traction. It can't be taboo to be critical about the effectiveness of diversity and inclusion programs, otherwise we'll all just wind up with our heads in the sand, hoping we aren't next on some journalist's hit list.

Chris2048 9y ago

> but denying there is a problem with diversity This is a straw man. The point is aside from whether there is a problem with D&I - but it also depends one what you mean by these terms as well.

belorn 9y ago

Where I live 90% of people work in a industry that has a problem with diversity and inclusion, with a unemployment rate that is higher for men than women. Its not a problem isolated to a single industry or even a single society. For reasons that we don't like to talk about, the wast majority of women work in industries that exclude men and the wast majority of men work in industries that exclude women. Maybe we should acknowledge the root cause here rather than picking which sand bucket we choose to bury our heads in?