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> They were foolish to vote for the kind of person who left them jobless. What 'kind' of person are you referring to? I think you might be over-generalizing. T

> They were foolish to vote for the kind of person who left them jobless. What 'kind' of person are you referring to? I think you might be over-generalizing. Trump has long been opposed to outsourcing American jobs, reportedly. In any case, we should differentiate between the actions of individual business owners, and the policy that establishes the playing field. For example, current US corporate tax policy creates a strong incentive for many businesses to keep their cash overseas, and not repatriate it and pay the tax. You can criticize each individual company that operates in this way, such as Apple, but if you want to fix the problem, you need to look to policy solutions like changing the tax law. A person can be in favor of changing policy even while they optimize within the current policy framework. For example: a wealthy person might be in favor of a tax on the wealthy even as they personally employ all available techniques to reduce their tax burden; there is no contradiction. No rational citizen will pay higher tax than the code obligates. Criticizing individuals who optimize their actions within the current policy framework isn't productive. We should expect everyone to operate according to the current policies, laws, and incentives -- and if we don't like those, then we should change them through the political process. So even if you consider Trump as somehow in the same category as company owners who ship jobs overseas, the point that you shouldn't overlook Trump's stated policy objective to create jobs in the US and remove the incentives to ship them overseas.

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"What 'kind' of person are you referring to? I think you might be over-generalizing. Trump has long been opposed to outsourcing American jobs, reportedly." How many employees does he have overseas? And how much does he depend on overseas goods when generating his wealth or power despite local ones available? I have a guess on one aspect given he spends a lot of time on Twitter using a smartphone that isn't 100% American despite he and others here having ability to fund one. Decent reasons, too, if we're talking espionage.
- mistermann 9y ago
  The parent comment addressed this phenomenon, although in a different context: > A person can be in favor of changing policy even while they optimize within the current policy framework. For example: a wealthy person might be in favor of a tax on the wealthy even as they personally employ all available techniques to reduce their tax burden; there is no contradiction. No rational citizen will pay higher tax than the code obligates. If you manufacture in the US while all your competitors manufacture overseas, you will go bankrupt, and would largely lose the ability to advocate for returning manufacturing the the US. Whether Trump is being honest in his promises is beside the point.
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    He doesn't do manufacturing: he mainly does real estate. He also started with a pile of money. He wasn't going to go bankrupt for investing that money exclusively in local businesses (esp real estate). He just didn't care about local businesses: his personal wealth and influence goes up as he globalizes just like those he critiques. Now, your argument can definitely apply to manufacturing. It's why I would disagree with Trump on something like that if cost is the main issue. It's not always as many U.S. manufacturing companies can attest. Even when needing cheap labor, there are countries other than China less likely to cause us trouble that we could invest in. Many U.S. companies do, too.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      > He doesn't do manufacturing: he mainly does real estate Sigh....if he buys all his materials/furniture/supplies in the US in operation of his real estate business. So yes it is hypocritical, but it is basically unavoidable at this stage of the game.

nickpsecurity 9y ago

"What 'kind' of person are you referring to? I think you might be over-generalizing. Trump has long been opposed to outsourcing American jobs, reportedly." How many employees does he have overseas? And how much does he depend on overseas goods when generating his wealth or power despite local ones available? I have a guess on one aspect given he spends a lot of time on Twitter using a smartphone that isn't 100% American despite he and others here having ability to fund one. Decent reasons, too, if we're talking espionage.

mistermann 9y ago
The parent comment addressed this phenomenon, although in a different context: > A person can be in favor of changing policy even while they optimize within the current policy framework. For example: a wealthy person might be in favor of a tax on the wealthy even as they personally employ all available techniques to reduce their tax burden; there is no contradiction. No rational citizen will pay higher tax than the code obligates. If you manufacture in the US while all your competitors manufacture overseas, you will go bankrupt, and would largely lose the ability to advocate for returning manufacturing the the US. Whether Trump is being honest in his promises is beside the point.
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  He doesn't do manufacturing: he mainly does real estate. He also started with a pile of money. He wasn't going to go bankrupt for investing that money exclusively in local businesses (esp real estate). He just didn't care about local businesses: his personal wealth and influence goes up as he globalizes just like those he critiques. Now, your argument can definitely apply to manufacturing. It's why I would disagree with Trump on something like that if cost is the main issue. It's not always as many U.S. manufacturing companies can attest. Even when needing cheap labor, there are countries other than China less likely to cause us trouble that we could invest in. Many U.S. companies do, too.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    > He doesn't do manufacturing: he mainly does real estate Sigh....if he buys all his materials/furniture/supplies in the US in operation of his real estate business. So yes it is hypocritical, but it is basically unavoidable at this stage of the game.