7 ms·

Silicon Valley's dirty little secret: The way it treats women

20 points by smb06 9y ago

dovdovdov 9y ago
Realizing that Ellen Pao's presence takes all the spotlight from the issue would help the cause greatly.
bouis2 9y ago
Silicon Valley is where the money is right now and everyone wants a piece of the pie, including employment lawyers. When Ellen Pao says "this is every tech company", and later in the article the solution is hiring HR people, hiring consultants and lawyers to protect you, you can kind of see where this is going. Everybody's a customer or they will be. A TV in every home, an iPhone in every pocket, a lawyer and a diversity and inclusion specialist in every startup that can afford it. Nobody is safe and there isn't much you can do but pay people off, whether that's the feminism in tech engineer who wants her settlement or the lawyers involved or whoever, a story is crystallizing here that startups are guilty, tech guys are guilty and they need to pay up.
- drewrv 9y ago
  I don't know if HR people and consultants are the solution, but denying there is a problem with diversity and inclusion in our industry requires burying your head pretty deep in the sand.
  - walterstucco 9y ago
    We must draw a line here. If we talk about diversity it's true women are under represented in tech. If we talk about discrimination in the valley I'm quite sure that American white women are not suffering the most. At least they have the entire female American society backing them up.
  - bouis 9y ago
    My head is not in the sand. Your head is in the sand if you say that every single tech company condones sexual harassment. It's actually an extraordinary claim that's hard to believe, but it's become so common to make bold claims about the ubiquity and universality of racism and sexism that it sounds normal to us. The idea is that if a woman is saying she likes her job as an engineer and doesn't feel mistreated, there's something wrong with that story and I'm sure she could dig a little deeper and remember a night out where somebody made an inappropriate comment, or she wasn't invited along, or she was just in some way treated differently because of her gender. If you take it that far, you're not just fixing tech company cultures, you're fixing the patriarchy, and that's not something that a bunch of consultants can fix. I think we need to be more specific about what we're trying to fix and where the problem begins and ends, otherwise we'll just put together ineffective diversity initiatives that never really gain traction. It can't be taboo to be critical about the effectiveness of diversity and inclusion programs, otherwise we'll all just wind up with our heads in the sand, hoping we aren't next on some journalist's hit list.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > but denying there is a problem with diversity This is a straw man. The point is aside from whether there is a problem with D&I - but it also depends one what you mean by these terms as well.
  - belorn 9y ago
    Where I live 90% of people work in a industry that has a problem with diversity and inclusion, with a unemployment rate that is higher for men than women. Its not a problem isolated to a single industry or even a single society. For reasons that we don't like to talk about, the wast majority of women work in industries that exclude men and the wast majority of men work in industries that exclude women. Maybe we should acknowledge the root cause here rather than picking which sand bucket we choose to bury our heads in?
walterstucco 9y ago
Meanwhile men can tell the same stories of harassment, under payment and stalled careers but nobody cares because, you know, they kinda deserve it for being men. I won't deny there is a problem in the valley, that's why I stayed in Europe, but the narrative men Vs women is wrong, US media should explore the fact that the whole American dream is about being abusive. Hypocrisy! Brutality! The elite! All of which are American dreams! -- RATM
- dang 9y ago
  This is a terrible HN comment that manages to combine gender flamebait with nationalistic flamebait. If you post like this again, we will ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html Edit: Ok you guys, point taken, s/insults/flamebait/. Late-night misstep!
  - anon_lastname 9y ago
    Look at you, enforcing the rules like a good little soldier.
  - Grangar 9y ago
    Where exactly is the insult..? I can imagine it's politically sensitive to people from the US, but that's not forbidden here as far as I know. It's not even rude.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    What gender insult?
  - zaptheimpaler 9y ago
    It is not insulting any gender. Also I think your bar for a "nationalistic insult" is a little low - all countries are open to criticism.
    - dang 9y ago

20 points by smb06 9y ago

Realizing that Ellen Pao's presence takes all the spotlight from the issue would help the cause greatly.

Silicon Valley is where the money is right now and everyone wants a piece of the pie, including employment lawyers. When Ellen Pao says "this is every tech company", and later in the article the solution is hiring HR people, hiring consultants and lawyers to protect you, you can kind of see where this is going. Everybody's a customer or they will be. A TV in every home, an iPhone in every pocket, a lawyer and a diversity and inclusion specialist in every startup that can afford it. Nobody is safe and there isn't much you can do but pay people off, whether that's the feminism in tech engineer who wants her settlement or the lawyers involved or whoever, a story is crystallizing here that startups are guilty, tech guys are guilty and they need to pay up.

drewrv 9y ago
I don't know if HR people and consultants are the solution, but denying there is a problem with diversity and inclusion in our industry requires burying your head pretty deep in the sand.
- walterstucco 9y ago
  We must draw a line here. If we talk about diversity it's true women are under represented in tech. If we talk about discrimination in the valley I'm quite sure that American white women are not suffering the most. At least they have the entire female American society backing them up.
- bouis 9y ago
  My head is not in the sand. Your head is in the sand if you say that every single tech company condones sexual harassment. It's actually an extraordinary claim that's hard to believe, but it's become so common to make bold claims about the ubiquity and universality of racism and sexism that it sounds normal to us. The idea is that if a woman is saying she likes her job as an engineer and doesn't feel mistreated, there's something wrong with that story and I'm sure she could dig a little deeper and remember a night out where somebody made an inappropriate comment, or she wasn't invited along, or she was just in some way treated differently because of her gender. If you take it that far, you're not just fixing tech company cultures, you're fixing the patriarchy, and that's not something that a bunch of consultants can fix. I think we need to be more specific about what we're trying to fix and where the problem begins and ends, otherwise we'll just put together ineffective diversity initiatives that never really gain traction. It can't be taboo to be critical about the effectiveness of diversity and inclusion programs, otherwise we'll all just wind up with our heads in the sand, hoping we aren't next on some journalist's hit list.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > but denying there is a problem with diversity This is a straw man. The point is aside from whether there is a problem with D&I - but it also depends one what you mean by these terms as well.
- belorn 9y ago
  Where I live 90% of people work in a industry that has a problem with diversity and inclusion, with a unemployment rate that is higher for men than women. Its not a problem isolated to a single industry or even a single society. For reasons that we don't like to talk about, the wast majority of women work in industries that exclude men and the wast majority of men work in industries that exclude women. Maybe we should acknowledge the root cause here rather than picking which sand bucket we choose to bury our heads in?

walterstucco 9y ago

Meanwhile men can tell the same stories of harassment, under payment and stalled careers but nobody cares because, you know, they kinda deserve it for being men. I won't deny there is a problem in the valley, that's why I stayed in Europe, but the narrative men Vs women is wrong, US media should explore the fact that the whole American dream is about being abusive. Hypocrisy! Brutality! The elite! All of which are American dreams! -- RATM

dang 9y ago
This is a terrible HN comment that manages to combine gender flamebait with nationalistic flamebait. If you post like this again, we will ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html Edit: Ok you guys, point taken, s/insults/flamebait/. Late-night misstep!
- anon_lastname 9y ago
  Look at you, enforcing the rules like a good little soldier.
- Grangar 9y ago
  Where exactly is the insult..? I can imagine it's politically sensitive to people from the US, but that's not forbidden here as far as I know. It's not even rude.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  What gender insult?
- zaptheimpaler 9y ago
  It is not insulting any gender. Also I think your bar for a "nationalistic insult" is a little low - all countries are open to criticism.
  - dang 9y ago