14 ms·

Babies On Display: When a Hospital Couldn't Save Them, a Sideshow Did (2015)

139 points by raldi 9y ago

omegaworks 9y ago
Couney used Coney to incubate his incubators!
- sixQuarks 9y ago
  Couney hacked Coney to incubate his incubatores
Cyphase 9y ago
I hope I wasn't the only one who thought for a moment that this was talking about a startup incubator. Even though that wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense.
- dEnigma 9y ago
  I thought exactly that after reading the title and for some reason was only mildly surprised by it.
- el_benhameen 9y ago
  The title churned my stomach until I took a moment to think about it a little more. Eesh.
- Cyphase 9y ago
  The title was "Incubator pioneer funded his work by displaying premature babies at a carnival" before it was changed.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - GotAnyMegadeth 9y ago
    I read the current title, "Babies On Display: When a Hospital Couldn't Save Them, a Sideshow Did (2015)" as slideshow instead of sideshow!
    - yellowapple 9y ago
      That'd have to be one hell of a PowerPoint!
dang 9y ago
We changed the URL from http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/25/517221933/lucille-horn-who-was-nursed-to-health-in-a-coney-island-sideshow-dies-at-96 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/25/517221933/... by the submitter's request. The two articles are closely related of course.
kristopolous 9y ago
I think about this story every time I hear "Goodbye My Coney Island Baby" and imagine someone serenading an infant in an incubator in 1920.
tudorw 9y ago
This is a lesson in shifting morals, and brings to mind a discussion I had that for me puts the nail in AI, modelling rational systems is 'easy', modelling systems that change over time is very hard, how would an AI's moral system keep in lockstep with the shifting whim of humanity ?
- posguy 9y ago
  Speaking of morals, is it really moral to not promote and invest in kidney transplants rather than have the federal government pay for dialysis for 5+ years before a person dies (due to the failed kidneys usually)? We could easily get most people off Dialysis, and allow them to live much healthier and longer lives if we allowed patient collectives (akin to Iran) to reward donors with cash and healthcare for the rest of their lives. Why do we choose to let this chunk of our population die slowly and at great expense, rather than do a (relatively) inexpensive & safe transplant? Seems twisted and sadistic on society's part to basically tourture this segment of the populace.
  - tudorw 9y ago
    I sympathise with your aim, more donors is a good thing, however some of the restrictions on sourcing donors are in place to protect vulnerable people from abuse, so it's not a clear cut decision, if AI is to replicate human thinking it would need to have these kind of discussions, I don't think we really want or need AI, faster and smarter calculators yes; the idea that this is 'intelligence' is akin to attributing intelligence to trees because we have libraries.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    """It is a sad indictment of the human condition that wherever there is a market, people will strive to find a profit margin even when this results in human exploitation.""" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291132/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291132/ Because having a market for everything with no bounds isn't a good thing.
    - icebraining 9y ago
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
I was not expecting "sick babies displayed at carnival sideshow" to be a wonderful, heartwarming story.
leoc 9y ago
Context: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Stork-Eugenics-Defective-American/dp/0195135393 https://www.amazon.com/Black-Stork-Eugenics-Defective-Americ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden "Harry John Haiselden (March 16, 1870 – June 18, 1919) was the Chief Surgeon at the German-American Hospital in Chicago in 1915 who refused to perform needed surgery for children born with severe birth defects and allowed the babies to die, in an act of eugenics."
paulpauper 9y ago
this seems applicable to libertarianism
owenversteeg 9y ago
That's the most heartwarming NY "hustle" story I've ever heard. Working long hours at a carnival, in the NY summer heat, pre-air conditioning (he started in 1896!) to save thousands of lives for no recognition. He did this for half a century, and for no profit either: he provided free medical care to the parents! This man is a damned hero. Stories like these are why I could never sympathize with eugenicists, who prevented incubators from being introduced in hospitals until the 1940s.
- jessriedel 9y ago
  Although no one uses eugenics to justify it anymore, there are still plenty of infants who are allowed to die because of severe birth defects that prevent mental development or give a high risk of early death. The moral situation arguably has greatly improved, but the difference between then and now is not nearly so clean cut.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    That's a different situation, isn't it? I mean, it depends on the specifics, but if you have someone who'll never reach even the intelligence of a cat... It's hard to justify their life on ethical grounds, when effectively "they" don't exist. Maybe that wasn't the situation you had in mind.
    - jessriedel 9y ago
      Most people don't value human life in proportion to intelligence. You can certainly construct an ethical framework with various thresholds, but my point is that the actual rules in place today reflect a regulatory equilibrium rather than a self-consistent moral philosophy. Most sensible philosophies will consider at least some modern accepted practices to be morally reprehensible.
      - kalleboo 9y ago
        > but my point is that the actual rules in place today reflect a regulatory equilibrium rather than a self-consistent moral philosophy I guess since people's morals are so varied, it's too hard to agree on a self-consistent moral philosophy. As an extreme example, just look at cases where people will ensure the right for a child to be born, but then not ensure rights to continuing health/nutrition/education. Beyond outliers like that there's a spectrum of every kind of opinion
jjt-yn_t 9y ago
I would surmise that those not having been needed to be seperated from immediate 'part of our family' infantdom someday would like to hear or read more about some social issues also relevant to what one cannot change at birth.
cbr 9y ago
Pictures of the carnival stand at different times: http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Infant-Incubators-building-at-1901-Pan-American-Exposition.jpg http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Infant-In... http://www.neonatology.org/pinups/ConeyIslandBooklet1.jpg http://www.neonatology.org/pinups/ConeyIslandBooklet1.jpg https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/720/cpsprodpb/D28F/production/_89730935_976549_martincouneybabyincubatorexhibitentrance.jpg https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/720/cpsprodpb/D28F/productio...
Endy 9y ago
My great-aunt was one of the Coney Island babies. She's not dead yet, last I heard.
- Endy 9y ago
  BTW - I just confirmed that she is alive and well with my Uncle.

139 points by raldi 9y ago

omegaworks 9y ago

Couney used Coney to incubate his incubators!

sixQuarks 9y ago
Couney hacked Coney to incubate his incubatores

Cyphase 9y ago

I hope I wasn't the only one who thought for a moment that this was talking about a startup incubator. Even though that wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense.

dEnigma 9y ago
I thought exactly that after reading the title and for some reason was only mildly surprised by it.
el_benhameen 9y ago
The title churned my stomach until I took a moment to think about it a little more. Eesh.
Cyphase 9y ago
The title was "Incubator pioneer funded his work by displaying premature babies at a carnival" before it was changed.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- GotAnyMegadeth 9y ago
  I read the current title, "Babies On Display: When a Hospital Couldn't Save Them, a Sideshow Did (2015)" as slideshow instead of sideshow!
  - yellowapple 9y ago
    That'd have to be one hell of a PowerPoint!

dang 9y ago

We changed the URL from http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/25/517221933/lucille-horn-who-was-nursed-to-health-in-a-coney-island-sideshow-dies-at-96 http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/25/517221933/... by the submitter's request. The two articles are closely related of course.

kristopolous 9y ago

I think about this story every time I hear "Goodbye My Coney Island Baby" and imagine someone serenading an infant in an incubator in 1920.

tudorw 9y ago

This is a lesson in shifting morals, and brings to mind a discussion I had that for me puts the nail in AI, modelling rational systems is 'easy', modelling systems that change over time is very hard, how would an AI's moral system keep in lockstep with the shifting whim of humanity ?

posguy 9y ago
Speaking of morals, is it really moral to not promote and invest in kidney transplants rather than have the federal government pay for dialysis for 5+ years before a person dies (due to the failed kidneys usually)? We could easily get most people off Dialysis, and allow them to live much healthier and longer lives if we allowed patient collectives (akin to Iran) to reward donors with cash and healthcare for the rest of their lives. Why do we choose to let this chunk of our population die slowly and at great expense, rather than do a (relatively) inexpensive & safe transplant? Seems twisted and sadistic on society's part to basically tourture this segment of the populace.
- tudorw 9y ago
  I sympathise with your aim, more donors is a good thing, however some of the restrictions on sourcing donors are in place to protect vulnerable people from abuse, so it's not a clear cut decision, if AI is to replicate human thinking it would need to have these kind of discussions, I don't think we really want or need AI, faster and smarter calculators yes; the idea that this is 'intelligence' is akin to attributing intelligence to trees because we have libraries.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  """It is a sad indictment of the human condition that wherever there is a market, people will strive to find a profit margin even when this results in human exploitation.""" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291132/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291132/ Because having a market for everything with no bounds isn't a good thing.
  - icebraining 9y ago

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

I was not expecting "sick babies displayed at carnival sideshow" to be a wonderful, heartwarming story.

leoc 9y ago

Context: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Stork-Eugenics-Defective-American/dp/0195135393 https://www.amazon.com/Black-Stork-Eugenics-Defective-Americ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Haiselden "Harry John Haiselden (March 16, 1870 – June 18, 1919) was the Chief Surgeon at the German-American Hospital in Chicago in 1915 who refused to perform needed surgery for children born with severe birth defects and allowed the babies to die, in an act of eugenics."

paulpauper 9y ago

this seems applicable to libertarianism

owenversteeg 9y ago

That's the most heartwarming NY "hustle" story I've ever heard. Working long hours at a carnival, in the NY summer heat, pre-air conditioning (he started in 1896!) to save thousands of lives for no recognition. He did this for half a century, and for no profit either: he provided free medical care to the parents! This man is a damned hero. Stories like these are why I could never sympathize with eugenicists, who prevented incubators from being introduced in hospitals until the 1940s.

jessriedel 9y ago
Although no one uses eugenics to justify it anymore, there are still plenty of infants who are allowed to die because of severe birth defects that prevent mental development or give a high risk of early death. The moral situation arguably has greatly improved, but the difference between then and now is not nearly so clean cut.
- Filligree 9y ago
  That's a different situation, isn't it? I mean, it depends on the specifics, but if you have someone who'll never reach even the intelligence of a cat... It's hard to justify their life on ethical grounds, when effectively "they" don't exist. Maybe that wasn't the situation you had in mind.
  - jessriedel 9y ago
    Most people don't value human life in proportion to intelligence. You can certainly construct an ethical framework with various thresholds, but my point is that the actual rules in place today reflect a regulatory equilibrium rather than a self-consistent moral philosophy. Most sensible philosophies will consider at least some modern accepted practices to be morally reprehensible.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      > but my point is that the actual rules in place today reflect a regulatory equilibrium rather than a self-consistent moral philosophy I guess since people's morals are so varied, it's too hard to agree on a self-consistent moral philosophy. As an extreme example, just look at cases where people will ensure the right for a child to be born, but then not ensure rights to continuing health/nutrition/education. Beyond outliers like that there's a spectrum of every kind of opinion

jjt-yn_t 9y ago

I would surmise that those not having been needed to be seperated from immediate 'part of our family' infantdom someday would like to hear or read more about some social issues also relevant to what one cannot change at birth.

cbr 9y ago

Pictures of the carnival stand at different times: http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Infant-Incubators-building-at-1901-Pan-American-Exposition.jpg http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Infant-In... http://www.neonatology.org/pinups/ConeyIslandBooklet1.jpg http://www.neonatology.org/pinups/ConeyIslandBooklet1.jpg https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/720/cpsprodpb/D28F/production/_89730935_976549_martincouneybabyincubatorexhibitentrance.jpg https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/720/cpsprodpb/D28F/productio...

Endy 9y ago

My great-aunt was one of the Coney Island babies. She's not dead yet, last I heard.

Endy 9y ago
BTW - I just confirmed that she is alive and well with my Uncle.