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The definition of a genius is someone with an IQ >= 140. Sorry, that word is taken. Embiggen your vocabulary and apply your definition to a more cromulent term

The definition of a genius is someone with an IQ >= 140. Sorry, that word is taken. Embiggen your vocabulary and apply your definition to a more cromulent term.

sanxiyn 9y ago
Eh, no. That's presupposing the conclusion. While the conclusion is correct and validity of IQ is one of the best replicated finding in all of psychology, by "genius" we certainly don't mean "being good at solving IQ test problems". "Being good at solving IQ test problems" happens to correlate with "being genius", but this is an empirical fact and not a logically necessary conclusion.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  Well, any other definition is going to be mostly subjective and will not survive a rigorous logical definition that satisfies all parties. Genius and madness seem to be intricately linked. one man's genius can be seen as someone who was insanely obsessive and compulsive about a small domain of knowledge, eshewing every other part of life like experiencing sex (Thank god for Tesla and thank god I am not afflicted with his condition, no matter how much smarter I'd be). That said, I think one of the hallmark's of genius is that they learn from first principles, maximizing their ability to context switch and apply inherent truths from one domain of knowledge to not only multiple others, but integrate it into their general world view...essentially polymaths. Knowledge isn't artificially contained in one area, it is part and parcel of the entirety of reality. One detriment of the hyper-specialization promulgated by capitalism is that we may have missed out on some prodigious talents who were siloed away studying in one field. Thankfully, we're seeing the pendulum swing back as multi-disclipinary approaches are becoming more popular, thanks in no small part to the rise of Information Technology. Being able to use a computer increases your ability to learn almost anything faster.
tacomonstrous 9y ago
I wasn't sure if this comment was fine irony, but apparently it was meant in seriousness. To me, your definition makes the notion of genius almost meaningless. True genius for me has to have an aspect of transcendence, of deep and abiding insight or beauty. Measuring it using IQ is completely beside the point. A 140 IQ puts someone around the 99.5 percentile, but not even among mathematicians would I venture that 1 out of every 200 is a genius. If you're talking about the general population, then that's just even more incredible.
- laichzeit0 9y ago
  I think the point he's trying to make is that the definition for the word "genius" is very clear. It's defined as an IQ >= 140. You can't say that _for you_ it means something different. That's like saying, _for you_ a convex function means something different than the mathematical definition. It's fine that you think it means something different, just use a different word, not the word "genius".
  - FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
    Exactly. I was just listing the technical definition. IQ tests are far from perfect, but they are an empirical measure
    - sgt101 9y ago
      Where does that definition come from? The root of the word is from birth and creation, not problem solving. The word is often applied to artists and musicians - is Keith Richards blessed with an IQ of 140? I think that it is generally agreed that Keith Richards is a genius, but his ability to make decisions is... questionable. Van Gogh is another, a life of terrible decision making, huge creative transformations, interventions that turned painting forever. Do you deny that these people should be called Geniuses because they wouldn't (or could) score highly on a test?
      - FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
        The definition comes from the Stanford-Binet IQ test. > is Keith Richards blessed with an IQ of 140? I think that it is generally agreed that Keith Richards is a genius, but his ability to make decisions is... questionable. How do you feel about it? I don't really care for the Rolling Stones or that type of rock music in general, so I'm not qualified to make an opinion here > Van Gogh is another, a life of terrible decision making, huge creative transformations, interventions that turned painting forever. I'm not really a big fan of his work. It doesn't elicit a strong emotional response in me. Perhaps because of its ubiquity, it seems like "default art". Then again I don't know much about painting or art history to offer a strong opinion. If we're going to be subjective, and I know this will be very controversial, I consider Arnold Schwarzenegger a genius in his field. He's the greatest bodybuilder of all time and will most likely remain so if the tradition of doing as many steroids as possible continues in the Mr Olympia competition. Arnold did steroids as well, but he sculpted his body to look like Hercules, as opposed to modern winners who look like Abomination( The Hulk's major foe). Also, in a very narrow way, his acting is genius. He plays the role of an assassination robot better than anyone. Note, I'm not saying he's great at portraying a synthetic intelligence in general (like Ava from Ex Machina) The point of having a technical definition is not to exclude those in the past, it is so that going forward it has a precise, empirical definition that everyone can all agree on. I'm not wedded to the word so it can also be brilliant, prodigy, virtuoso, etc. Many words in common parlance once had specific medical/clinical meaning like idiot, moron, etc.
mcbits 9y ago
The word "genius" in the modern sense (extraordinary inborn mental ability) is about 200 years older than the practice of IQ testing, and it went through at least two definitions before that. The common theme has been that genius is something innate to the individual. Nobody has a claim on the word, especially not the super dubious psychometric community.
dang 9y ago
Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to HN? At some point Cunningham's Law blends into trollery. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532068 and marked it off-topic.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  > Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to HN? I take issue with this. How is the content unsubstantive? It wasn't untrue or misleading, it is just what the Stanford Binet IQ test classifies as genius. so that it being one becomes a matter of fact, not of opinion. > At some point Cunningham's Law blends into trollery. Now that I reread my comment, I see how it can be misconstrued as snarky. That was not at all the intention. It was meant to be self-deprecating and lighthearted, as I was using made-up words while criticize someone for not using made-up words. I thought about adding a smiley face so as to make my intentions clearer, but emoticons aren't really used on HN. I'm about as anti-troll as you can get as I believe them to be parasites of the internet and a brief look at my comment history would elucidate than I am always if not I'm not earnest, helpful, or passionate in discussion, I am positive in tone. Look at the amount of discussion it generated before being pruned and the varying opinions on what constitutes "genius". It's not that big a deal, but this is the first time I can ever recall having a comment moderated in my nearly 25 year history of using the internet. I see how it can be interpreted as snark, but when moderating, perhaps take the user's history into account. For my part, I will make my intentions more obvious so that they will not be interpreted as negative or as an attack.

The definition of a genius is someone with an IQ >= 140. Sorry, that word is taken. Embiggen your vocabulary and apply your definition to a more cromulent term.

sanxiyn 9y ago

Eh, no. That's presupposing the conclusion. While the conclusion is correct and validity of IQ is one of the best replicated finding in all of psychology, by "genius" we certainly don't mean "being good at solving IQ test problems". "Being good at solving IQ test problems" happens to correlate with "being genius", but this is an empirical fact and not a logically necessary conclusion.

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
Well, any other definition is going to be mostly subjective and will not survive a rigorous logical definition that satisfies all parties. Genius and madness seem to be intricately linked. one man's genius can be seen as someone who was insanely obsessive and compulsive about a small domain of knowledge, eshewing every other part of life like experiencing sex (Thank god for Tesla and thank god I am not afflicted with his condition, no matter how much smarter I'd be). That said, I think one of the hallmark's of genius is that they learn from first principles, maximizing their ability to context switch and apply inherent truths from one domain of knowledge to not only multiple others, but integrate it into their general world view...essentially polymaths. Knowledge isn't artificially contained in one area, it is part and parcel of the entirety of reality. One detriment of the hyper-specialization promulgated by capitalism is that we may have missed out on some prodigious talents who were siloed away studying in one field. Thankfully, we're seeing the pendulum swing back as multi-disclipinary approaches are becoming more popular, thanks in no small part to the rise of Information Technology. Being able to use a computer increases your ability to learn almost anything faster.

tacomonstrous 9y ago

I wasn't sure if this comment was fine irony, but apparently it was meant in seriousness. To me, your definition makes the notion of genius almost meaningless. True genius for me has to have an aspect of transcendence, of deep and abiding insight or beauty. Measuring it using IQ is completely beside the point. A 140 IQ puts someone around the 99.5 percentile, but not even among mathematicians would I venture that 1 out of every 200 is a genius. If you're talking about the general population, then that's just even more incredible.

laichzeit0 9y ago
I think the point he's trying to make is that the definition for the word "genius" is very clear. It's defined as an IQ >= 140. You can't say that _for you_ it means something different. That's like saying, _for you_ a convex function means something different than the mathematical definition. It's fine that you think it means something different, just use a different word, not the word "genius".
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  Exactly. I was just listing the technical definition. IQ tests are far from perfect, but they are an empirical measure
  - sgt101 9y ago
    Where does that definition come from? The root of the word is from birth and creation, not problem solving. The word is often applied to artists and musicians - is Keith Richards blessed with an IQ of 140? I think that it is generally agreed that Keith Richards is a genius, but his ability to make decisions is... questionable. Van Gogh is another, a life of terrible decision making, huge creative transformations, interventions that turned painting forever. Do you deny that these people should be called Geniuses because they wouldn't (or could) score highly on a test?
    - FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
      The definition comes from the Stanford-Binet IQ test. > is Keith Richards blessed with an IQ of 140? I think that it is generally agreed that Keith Richards is a genius, but his ability to make decisions is... questionable. How do you feel about it? I don't really care for the Rolling Stones or that type of rock music in general, so I'm not qualified to make an opinion here > Van Gogh is another, a life of terrible decision making, huge creative transformations, interventions that turned painting forever. I'm not really a big fan of his work. It doesn't elicit a strong emotional response in me. Perhaps because of its ubiquity, it seems like "default art". Then again I don't know much about painting or art history to offer a strong opinion. If we're going to be subjective, and I know this will be very controversial, I consider Arnold Schwarzenegger a genius in his field. He's the greatest bodybuilder of all time and will most likely remain so if the tradition of doing as many steroids as possible continues in the Mr Olympia competition. Arnold did steroids as well, but he sculpted his body to look like Hercules, as opposed to modern winners who look like Abomination( The Hulk's major foe). Also, in a very narrow way, his acting is genius. He plays the role of an assassination robot better than anyone. Note, I'm not saying he's great at portraying a synthetic intelligence in general (like Ava from Ex Machina) The point of having a technical definition is not to exclude those in the past, it is so that going forward it has a precise, empirical definition that everyone can all agree on. I'm not wedded to the word so it can also be brilliant, prodigy, virtuoso, etc. Many words in common parlance once had specific medical/clinical meaning like idiot, moron, etc.

mcbits 9y ago

The word "genius" in the modern sense (extraordinary inborn mental ability) is about 200 years older than the practice of IQ testing, and it went through at least two definitions before that. The common theme has been that genius is something innate to the individual. Nobody has a claim on the word, especially not the super dubious psychometric community.

dang 9y ago

Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to HN? At some point Cunningham's Law blends into trollery. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532068 and marked it off-topic.

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
> Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to HN? I take issue with this. How is the content unsubstantive? It wasn't untrue or misleading, it is just what the Stanford Binet IQ test classifies as genius. so that it being one becomes a matter of fact, not of opinion. > At some point Cunningham's Law blends into trollery. Now that I reread my comment, I see how it can be misconstrued as snarky. That was not at all the intention. It was meant to be self-deprecating and lighthearted, as I was using made-up words while criticize someone for not using made-up words. I thought about adding a smiley face so as to make my intentions clearer, but emoticons aren't really used on HN. I'm about as anti-troll as you can get as I believe them to be parasites of the internet and a brief look at my comment history would elucidate than I am always if not I'm not earnest, helpful, or passionate in discussion, I am positive in tone. Look at the amount of discussion it generated before being pruned and the varying opinions on what constitutes "genius". It's not that big a deal, but this is the first time I can ever recall having a comment moderated in my nearly 25 year history of using the internet. I see how it can be interpreted as snark, but when moderating, perhaps take the user's history into account. For my part, I will make my intentions more obvious so that they will not be interpreted as negative or as an attack.