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Prozac Nation Is Now the United States of Xanax
- edpichler 9y agoAnd, as humans, we are not prepared yet for all those notifications we have right on our pockets. Psychologically, we feel pleased when we check it and the notification disappear, so we do that unceasingly.
- chillingeffect 9y agoand the way they are presented as "alerts" creates more suffering than it's worth. Alerts should be for things like tornadoes, floods and hurricanes, not upcoming birthdays. And even more fundamental than that, most of us are unprepared to deal with such intimate knowledge of one another. The goody-goodies are losing it when they realize how much suffering there is in the world. It makes us all feel so powerless (if we let it). Humans apparently evolved to have enough memory to deal with about 150 personal relationships... We're now pervaded with human contact and persona from thousands of people at varying distances... And our mistakes, instead of being dealt with on a personal, intimate level of people nearby to us are projecting outwards to the entire globe! And stored there indefinitely! I liked playing low-res video games and calling BBSes, but this world-wide persistent network is too intense!
- microcolonel 9y ago> our everyday argot, our thrumming lifeblood: not just on Twitter (the ur-anxious medium, with its constant updates), but also in blogger diaries, celebrity confessionals (Et tu, Beyoncé?), a hit Broadway show (“Dear Evan Hansen”), a magazine start-up (Anxy, a mental-health publication based in Berkeley, Calif.), buzzed-about television series (like “Maniac,” a coming Netflix series by Cary Fukunaga, the lauded “True Detective” director) and, defying our abbreviated attention spans, on bookshelves. Is there a good more-factish article about this? I'm the type of person who wants to read words like "thrumming". For an article about anxiety, the prose seems to be designed to produce further anxiety. Anxiety about anxiety is probably the most dangerous kind.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- wickawic 9y ago> Anxiety about anxiety is probably the most dangerous kind. So the prose was effective! Sometimes being dry and objective is not the best way to get across a point.
- ooae 9y agoI often find that being dry and objective is the best way to get my subjective point across. Readers find it distressing when we as reporters don't speak in an authoritative voice; it makes readers question if we really have a definitive answer to the problems we present to them.
- refurb 9y agoThis article is a great example of "unless it's reported by the media, it doesn't exist." Is this article really drawing a conclusion that nobody was anxious during the 1990's? That's how it seems to me.
- unclesaamm 9y agoNo, they're making the point that anxiety is both sociological as well as biological, and that the sociological dimensions of anxiety have worsened. I'm not sure I agree either, but is that so hard to gleam from TFA? Here's a book that adds to this point that mental illness "spreads" in a social contagion sense: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Like-Us-Globalization-American/dp/1416587098 https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Like-Us-Globalization-American/...
- ooae 9y ago>Is this article really drawing a conclusion that nobody was anxious during the 1990's? No. >This article is a great example of "unless it's reported by the media, it doesn't exist." Why?
- refurb 9y agoBecause they call out the "slacker" generation of the 1990's like it's a good proxy for everyone in the US. The people anxious today were probably anxious back then too!
- ooae 9y agoYour feelings are valid, because it's true that reading the article made you feel that way. The writer should have been more considerate of how his choice of words would resonate.
- awkwarddaturtle 9y agoIt's a great example of the nytimes and the media having to create stories in order to sell ads. The easiest way to get clicks is to sell fear. "Opioid" crisis. Trumpaggaedon. Ebola/SARS/etc. "Your child might die from this!!! Click to find what it is before your child might die! Click NOW!" Think about it. If absolutely nothing happens in the world, the "journalists" have to write something to sell themselves and make the newspaper money. These people are no better than clickbaiting youtubers. Also, fear and anxiety are great ways to control and manipulate the people. It's what north korea does to its people. It was the nazis did in the 1930s. Just like reading the bible critically is the cure for christianity. As a former 7-day subscriber to the NYTimes, reading the NYTimes critically is the cure for propaganda.
- satysin 9y agoXanax withdrawal is a seriously horrible experience. Sadly it seems to be given out like candy when it shouldn't be used for more than a few days to help you get through the absolute worst moments.
- wcummings 9y agoCame here to say basically this. It can take months or years to taper down. I've seen a lot of people prescribed a lot of benzos (Klonopin specifically but also others. I think there are rules about how Xanax can be prescribed in my home state) , even when my peers and I were younger. It seems to me that these drugs are surprisingly accessible to people with the right resources. Unless there is no other way you can function taking Klonopin for long term To my untrained eye being prescribed any benzo for extended daily use seems like it should be an exceptional treatment, but maybe I'm wrong.
- bspn 9y agoI have started to take a more active role in my wife's ongoing treatment for this very reason. While I generally like her doctor, his willingness to bounce from drug-to-drug in an effort to treat her depression and anxiety is incredibly troubling for me as someone who grew up in a society where medication was seen as a last resort in the treatment cycle. She has now been on Xanax, Cymbalta, Lyrica, Klonopin, Ativan .... I could go on. Every time she begins a new medicine or comes off an existing one is a trying time for both of us as the side effects (both mental and physical) can be incredibly brutal.
- pjc50 9y agoOver what kind of time period is that? You're definitely not supposed to change drugs every few months. For me the scattershot approach is most alarming; it would be far better if there were some kind of in-vitro test to see what would be best rather than "suck it and see". I've seen a few other people have problems with that.
- TeMPOraL 9y agoFrom what I heard, it is this way because there is currently no better way of determining which psychiatric drug will work best besides going for trial and error.
- coldcode 9y agoMaybe people have anxiety because they are worried about having anxiety? I find it funny that drugs like LSD are illegal because it might change how your brain works, yet people take Xanax to change how their brain works. Maybe people are diagnosed with anxiety because they are given prescriptions to drugs that drug companies make more money off of? Drugs for depression may not make enough money these days since there is insufficient evidence that they really do much. Opioids are getting a bad name since they don't actually work for long term pain and are horribly addictive, and there aren't all that many new ones. So drug companies are anxious to find a new source of sales [pun intended].
- johncolanduoni 9y ago> Drugs for depression may not make enough money these days since there is insufficient evidence that they really do much. Ignoring the fact that I'd like to see your evidence for the latter claim, there certainly hasn't been a drop in prescriptions of antidepressants or a lack of new patented (and popular) ones.
- philovivero 9y agoThis blog post seems pretty well-cited: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/05/is-pharma-research-worse-than-chance/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/05/is-pharma-research-wors... Note for the uninitiated: I'm being sarcastically understated here. The author in question is an authority in drugs for depression and writes extremely lengthy and well-cited essays. He's also a very engaging author.
- johncolanduoni 9y agoI've read his blog for a number of years. He is saying new drugs haven't improved much on those available at the beginning of the 21st century. Scott is not very pessimistic at all about SSRIs being useful. Here's an essay from him (that is much longer and better cited) debunking the "antidepressants are basically placebo" narrative: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-yo... And another where he explicitly recommends SSRIs: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-h... I was really shocked that you posted something from his blog, but I guess if you've already decided the answer you can find evidence anywhere you look.
- devoply 9y agoPeople are apes. The anxiety level in apes is directly linked to the dominance hierarchy and where they are in the dominance hierarchy, and how secure they feel in that position. The dominance hierarchy in modern society is directly liked to your place in the corporate hierarchy. So the economy is directly linked to how much anxiety workers feel being a part of a dominance hierarchy that is incredibly unstable and sociopathic. If we want to reduce anxiety in the population we have to do something about the way business is conducted most likely globally. And universal income totally does not address this problem because if you are on it, i.e. that's your only source of income, you are automatically at the bottom of the social dominance hierarchy and therefore automatically feel high levels of stress, and you will self-medicate with drugs to reduce that stress.
- ooae 9y agoBut I'm a nobody and I feel great when I meditate. Is it because I don't occupy my mind with any memory or thoughts of that problematic? The world feels splendid when you don't keep in mind your past or future experience of it.
- devoply 9y agoIf you are oblivious to the dominance hierarchy then it does not affect you until you try to interact with it... like getting a mate or getting a certain level of recognition from your peers who are actively aware of it and their place in it.. etc. The hierarchy is part of a game, that you don't have to play unless you are forced to by other people. Due to economic need, sexual need, etc. There are alternative dominance hierarchies too, we call them sub-cultures that you might try to join instead for much the same purpose.
- gregatragenet3 9y agoOf course people are more axious now. It's by-design and shows the media and advertising efforts of the last decades are working. Anxious people are more likely to over-consume (a clear example, stress-eating) and are more likely to 'stay tuned in'. If you want to reduce your anxiety, withdrawal from media (in both senses) for a month and see how you feel.
- mc32 9y agoIf for the sake of argument we presume the postulate true and we envision a better informed future could a company such as Google (or others) be obliged to a point where past a certain threshold social media and media in general adjust one's exposure to counteract people's unhealthy impulses? For example, if (Google) knows you are living beyond your means then ads targeted change in aspect from aspirational to more basic needs and the news and social media surfaced to you modify so that you feel less stressed and less out of a loop till the time you have more disposable income? (just a thought experiment)
- paulddraper 9y agoOnce we all agree on the acceptable level of unhealthy impulses, we can do that
- vibrolax 9y agoWell, ads for casinos and alcohol (in New York USA at least) come with fine print at the bottom encouraging responsible use and/or how to get help for problem gambling.
- coldtea 9y ago>Could a company such as Google (or others) be obliged to a point where past a certain threshold social media and media in general adjust one's exposure to counteract people's unhealthy impulses? Only if people strongly demand it. It wont come from politicians who those companies have in their pockets...
- Programmatic 9y agoPerhaps I am cynical, but what's the profit motive for Google? They're much more financially motivated to be complicit and find vulnerable people to advertise to, if not create vulnerability, assuming that there won't be backlash against them in particular.
- paulpauper 9y agoFOMO is real. Look at how much Bitcoin and the stock market have gone up over the past few years. "Everyone is getting rich but me"
- mendelsd 9y agoDecades-long anxiety sufferer here, basically cured with thyroid hormone replacement... Thyroid underactivity is a very common condition (thyroid hormone is the third-most prescribed medication in the UK), and some of you anxiety sufferers out there may have a thyroid problem (either under- or over-activity). The most common problem is an underactive thyroid, which 90% of the time is caused by auto-immunity. Detection is complicated by an ongoing controversy over reference ranges [1][2]. I recommend you seek the advice of the most careful practitioners. If you suspect a problem but your doctor won't treat, keep testing. The results will fluctuate, and even more so if you have a problem. Beware TSH measurements consistently above 2.0. That may put you at risk of chronically elevated cortisol [3], which has been shown to cause anxiety in mice [4]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148345 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148345 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148346 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148346 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520819/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520819/ [4] http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2006/04/stress-mood.aspx http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2006/04/stress-mood.a...
- hammock 9y agoNot preaching just curious did you try any diet changes?
- mendelsd 9y agoI made major dietary changes before I went on meds. My overall health improved a lot, but mental health improvements were insufficient.
- brad0 9y agoI got tested for hypothyroidism after my hair started falling out one day. I had a TSH level of 64.0. My body was effectively screaming for more thyroid hormone. I've also had high levels of anxiety and cortisol, I wasn't aware of the relation though. Unfortunately hypothyroidism is so common place that my doctor's don't really give me the info. I'll read through your links to find out more about this. EDIT: After reading the chronic exposure article I think I'm going to avoid adrenalin releasing activities for a while. Coffee and intense video games :)
- 11thEarlOfMar 9y agoWould grateful to hear anyone's experience taking SSRI's (Zoloft, etc.). Was it effective, how long were you taking it, what were the side effects it any, how was the experience of stopping (withdrawal, etc.)?
- Blackthorn 9y agoBeen taking Lexapro for over two years now. Started at five, moved up to 7.5 and ultimately been settled at ten for the last year and a half. Have not seen side effects (I was deathly afraid of something like ED but if anything my sex drive is enhanced thanks to no longer being depressed). It has been one hundred percent effective. If I miss a day, I know (and so does everyone else). We (psychiatrist and I) tried to see if I had gotten past the point of needing it by tapering off. Didn't work, so I'm back at ten, probably for life. That's fine, there's way worse medications to be dependent on!
- Franciscouzo 9y agoAre you sure the symptoms you got by tapering off were because you not longer have the drug you need in your system, or because of discontinuation syndrome?
- Blackthorn 9y agoMy psychiatrist determined it was the former.
- DanBC 9y ago> tried to see if I had gotten past the point of needing it by tapering off A small point, but the "discontinuation effects" for these meds can be severe, and they can make people think they still need to take the meds. This keeps people taking meds for very long amounts of time. Some people are okay with the side effects, and they've made an informed choice about the risks of taking these meds long term. The Guardian newspaper has been running a couple of stories about long term use. I think they're a little bit alarmist, but the personal experiences are useful. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/06/long-term-user-antidepressants-tell-experiences https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/06/long-term-us... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/03/is-britain-a-nation-hooked-on-antidepressants https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/03/is-brit... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/06/dont-know-who-am-antidepressant-long-term-use https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/06/dont-know-wh...
- nugget 9y agoI've always viewed at least one source of modern anxiety as the gap between perception and reality re: your own potential as a human being. This gap seems to be increasing. Perception - you are just one mobile app away from becoming the next Mark Zuckerberg. Reality - a generation burdened with student loan debt and extremely high costs of living in urban areas. Objectively, life is better (more comfortable) now than ever before. But to a lot of people it doesn't feel that way. We should train for mental health the way we train for marathons and sporting events. In the absence of that, perhaps ignorance is bliss.
- branchless 9y agoPeople are stressed because they are never free. In a capitalist society we can do whatever we want (TM) except if you have no money. Then you can't do anything. High land prices mean we can afford to rent (the cost of carry on the debt on the land) but never own. Therefore we can never be financially independent. With technology and globalisation eroding job security for everyone we are never able to relax. Always looking over our shoulder, unable to refuse overtime, hunted. Yes this might not apply to the upper class tech of hacker news but they are not representative of the vast majority of people.
- dqv 9y ago>People are stressed because they are never free. I disagree that this is the root cause. News media and social media have both become extremely efficient and high speed conduits for "stress loading" upon our population. A local news story used to only isolate the stress to a small locality; now, however, mass media is amplifying and propagating this local stress all around the country. It's only going to get worse.
- wutbrodo 9y ago> Yes this might not apply to the upper class tech of hacker news but they are not representative of the vast majority of people. It should be clear that this doesn't encapsulate the problem if there's a reasonable segment of the population feeling the same effect without being subject to the same causes. And the stuff you're describing is on the order of 20% here, not 1%.
- rdiddly 9y agoThe answers are all right there in the article. Want to reduce the influence of sociogenic anxiety? Lay off the Twitter & TV, and specifically ignore Trump. It's what I do and it works like a charm. It won't cure a chronic case, but it'll stop making it worse. I knew as I clicked the link that Twitter would be mentioned, and it occurred just 40 words into the first paragraph. I also knew "Russia" would appear, which is especially ironic when you consider that most of what you hear about Russia nowadays is utter bullshit - listen to Putin talk about the US sometime if you want to feel calm. I'm dead serious about that. You should do your damnedest to limit the scope of your anxiety to things you can actually do something about.
- westoncb 9y agoSelf-awareness about anxiety certainly seems to have an impact. After it was suggested to me that I might have some 'anxiety issues', my anxiety issues got way worse, probably because of a positive feedback loop the self-awareness created: if I noticed I was exhibiting symptoms of anxiety, the symptoms would start increasing since anxiety symptoms were something I was anxious about. Edit: I mean to also point out that as our society becomes more conscious of the effects/risks associated with anxiety, it increases the likelihood of creating issues like what I described above.
- wutbrodo 9y agoCounter-anecdotally, this worked the opposite way for me. I had a pretty shitty childhood and had panic attacks until I was about 24 and realized it by googling air hunger. Prior to that, I was so clueless that I thought that my regular inability to fill my lungs was due to my minor allergy issues or something, and had no idea why I would seemingly unpredictably start sweating and (separately) why my heart would beat rapidly sometimes. Being able to identify the problem made it way easier to handle, even before I started actively trying to fix it with things like mindfulness. These days whenever I notice air hunger, I stop and think what I might be anxious about and am usually able to reason my way out of subconsciously freaking out (even if it's as simple as "this isn't going to make it _more_ likely that the situation resolves well"). It seems just as likely to me that more awareness of anxiety will work in the opposite direction from what you're describing, mitigating anxiety off for people earlier since they're able to start recognizing and managing it earlier through greater awareness.
- ams6110 9y agoDelicious irony that this is in one of the main pushers of crisis news. After my mom retired she started watching a lot more cable news. She became noticably more anxious after a while. If you're feeling anxious, I'd suggest stop watching/reading popular news media. Turn off push notifications. Reduce or eliminate social media apps. Our psychology did not evolve with constant input about every crisis happening in the world. Live your life slowly and locally. You'll be happier.
- JohnStrange 9y agoThe New York times? I don't think so. They're not pushing any crises, they're just reporting what's going on in the world. Maybe you're a bit biased.
- gaius 9y agoThey are supported by ad revenue. They can't not be like this, they need the clicks. This is not about political left or political right, it's the new commercial reality. It will be like this until they go back to being like print - i.e. you pay for your daily copy and all the ads are fixed price up front.
- JohnStrange 9y agoThey are reporting mostly negative news because "positive" news is not newsworthy, and it has always been like that since newspapers have been invented. Nothing has changed in that respect, and, frankly speaking, I'd be wary about people who want to hear more positive news just to feel a bit better about the world. As for TV channels, yes, they are all crap.
- mercer 9y agoYour point seems unrelated to that of the OP. NYTimes might be reporting negative news for good reason (I agree), but it might still be a cause for increased anxiety and perhaps consumed more sparingly. Personally I strongly agree. A lot of news consumption serves little purpose, and might very well have all sorts of negative effects. My solution is to avoid most news sources most of the time, read some updates occasionally or, ideally, use sources that write longer articles (that have the added benefit of context and filtering). Here in Holland we have one paper that has this as their mission statement (De Correspondent). For other perspectives or updates on other areas I mostly rely on a few newsletters and 'bigger picture' articles from various sources. Also my feed reeder for skimming.
- awkwarddaturtle 9y agoIf the nytimes, bbc and the media would disappear, it would solve a lot of the anxiety problem. The media is poison for the population. Not only do they deceive the population, they intentionally try to cause fear and anxiety in the population to sell ads.
- aisofteng 9y agoIf reading a piece of text makes you have an anxiety attack, the problem lies in you and not in the fact that that piece of text was published. This is getting ridiculous.
- hutzlibu 9y agoProbably the opposite, as people then now would be scared of all the crisis happening without them knowing it ...
- maxxxxx 9y agoI think this is a symptom of a relatively peaceful and comfortable life with no bigger meaning. My parents lost their homes in WW2, my dad got shot twice, almost died, spent months eating moldy bread and list a lot of friends in war. They have a totally different outlook on life and it's smaller crises. I don't want to diminish the suffering of current generations but I think everyone looks for something that gives their life focus and if there is no big challenge then people will look for something that makes their life important. To me the last 30 years were sort of stale. The west has no big project to work on and for the not 0.1% life seems to stagnate. So people look for something else to give life meaning. This can be religion or watching scary news and having anxiety over non issues. Not sure what the solution is but I think somehow people must have a mission in life and the feeling they are going somewhere. Without that anxiety and other psychological problems develop.
- DenisM 9y agoI'm sympathetic to your pov, but those big traumatic events likely left huge scars on the psyche of the previous generations. The PTSD was not being diagnosed at the time. Big struggle may not be the recipe for mental health.
- maxxxxx 9y agoTotally agree. Many WW2 probably had serious PTSD. My point is that people who haven't gone though serious struggle tend to "sweat the small stuff". When I hear people being crazy angry and depressed about the Trump election it seems it me that they are looking for a mission in life. Modern corporate life doesn't offer a meaningful mission so they go overboard with politics or something else really not that important.
- pas 9y agoExactly, except it's just as important. You know, there were probably a lot of Germans in 1930 going overboard with politics, yet Hitler got elected. Bad politics was bad politics back then, and it's bad now, and it's good that there are people trying to lift the quality and substance of political discourse. Even if it means spending weeks debunking clueless, loud and aggressive ignoramuses; going to rallies, writing to reps and senators and so on. Maybe, as the folks back then weren't too effective, the folks nowadays might be not very effective either, but that doesn't mean the problems are less important. For example, there are more people now that in the 1940s, and a lot more pollution, and so more people die thanks to pollution than back then, so if you can persuade others to help curb pollution, you help saving millions of people. The same thing goes for other aspects of life. And yes, people are bad at appreciating the paperpusher numbercruncher aspect of change, and naturally feel the awe and the epicness of a world war. And the same way a war affects millions a financial crisis, a flood or drought, or an epidemic does too, yet one is a lot more palpable, with good and bad actors, with bad guys to shoot at. Another interesting aspect is how people treat refugees and civilians (interment of Japanese, sending back Cubans, now the handling of Syrians) which again is a lot less glorious than a world war, but potentially (and likely) affects a lot more people.
- jboggan 9y agoI find a great diminishing of my anxiety the more I read history books and biographies of figures who were involved in the tumult of their times. It's great for contextualizing the world today and accepting its ebb and flow beyond my capacity to affect it.
- rndmind 9y agoCare to recommend any good books?
- notadoc 9y agoHow is this any different from the so-called "opioid epidemic" or any other prescription or substance abuse? Will the politicians and news media give this as much hysteria? Will they take punitive actions against patients? People are medicated, self-medicated, addicts, etc for various reasons. Why are we so obsessed with what other people do or don't do?
- wutbrodo 9y agoI might be misunderstanding where you're coming from, but presumably the concern isn't for medicating the anxiety, it's for the prevalence of anxiety itself. If there's a novel high incidence of anxiety across the population, how is that _not_ interesting? Is the concept of concern for other people really that alien to you? Hell, even if we stick with your model of "why would I ever care about another person's well-being", understanding that anxiety is apparently so common can help an individual better understand where his anxiety is coming from (eg perhaps weighting universal factors more heavily than personal ones).
- cosmic_ape 9y agoI think the the way this article is written, is both the symptom, and a factor helping the proliferation, of the issue it discusses. It is more or less a trivia style collection of references and anecdotes, from different sources related to the topic. It feels a bit like a tweeter feed itself, if you search #anxiety - a really wide collection of tangentially related observations (haven't actually tried that, no twitter account, but you get the point). No attempt of synthesis, no deeper analysis of the connections between topics, no statistics. The way I understand it, when there is no core but a shattered collection of associations, that by itself can cause anxiety. Because the reader now has him/herself to build connections, or leave that as uncertainty, and uncertainty will cause anxiety. And to expect the reader will do that is unrealistic - even the skilled reader will need time for that. Also, consider how the article came to existence: The author seems to be a professional writer, 2-3 articles a month, half of them about hand watches. You have just read a socio-cultural analysis by the author of hand watch surveys. On nytimes.com. Granted, life of writers is tough and jumping to conclusions here would be premature. But even if the author is capable of writing a thoughtful piece, writing that kind of article on a serious subject should be a violation of some kind of writer's version of Hippocratic Oath. Couldn't nytimes.com find a reasonable expert to write that? It could, but it wouldn't for some reason. Finally, the first paragraph mentions Sarah Fader, "the Brooklyn social media consultant", "who has generalized anxiety disorder" with her tweet - apparently a gesture by one of the common people. One of the last paragraphs mentions her again, but now "the Brooklyn social media consultant who also runs a mental-health advocacy organization called Stigma Fighters". So perhaps more a calculated step rather than a gesture, but why spoil the hero story right in the first paragraph?
- aisofteng 9y agoWhen did it become the case that having "anxiety" isn't a stupidly clear indication of mental disability?