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Uber Board to Discuss CEO Absence, Policy Changes: Source

170 points by troydavis 9y ago

dboreham 9y ago
Something wrong about this: someone in power being held accoutable for their incompetence and bad behavior. Or did he just loose some rich people too much money?
- jeffjose 9y ago
  Both actually. When the long-term prospects of the company are dragged down because of the CEO, its time for some changes.
- product50 9y ago
  What incompetence? This guy built $70B company from scratch in markets which had regulations and very active taxi unions lobbying against the very existence of the company. More importantly, Uber has helped improve the lives of hundreds of millions of commuters across the globe. What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? Also, it is important to understand that his "always hustling" and "being ruthless" or "never say die" attitude are a double edged sword. The same attitude has served him very well when taking on local governments to push his service through - but is creating a number of challenges at running a company which has now become quite big.
  - jeffjose 9y ago
    > What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? At the risk of going on a tangent - isn't this ad hominem? Imagine for a second, someone profoundly successful made the statement OP made. Does your outlook change then?
    - thanksgiving 9y ago
      I'd say no because nobody, not even Sergei and Larry, not even the devil incarnate at the database company, not anyone in silicon valley has done what Travis and his team have done. I was never a fan of ubers because like Dropbox I thought it was too simplistic and too easily replaceable. I've become more wary of the anti uber propaganda lately. I'm more suspicious of the press than ever. When I read some news all I can think of is which ax are they grinding there. The constant onslaught of anti uber propaganda makes me think something is wrong here. If Travis loses, it will be a teachable moment for other unicorns. What lessons can we learn about what he did incorrectly in stacking the board? How can a CEO/founder prevent a coup?
      - castis 9y ago
        > How can a CEO/founder prevent a coup? Don't give people a reason to dislike you.
        JonFish85 9y ago
        Or set up the stock plan in such a way that you're untouchable (e.g. Snapchat's Evan Spiegel).
      - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
        For what it's worth anti-Uber propaganda wouldn't have rung true for me nearly as well had a friend not driven for Uber and reported back how little he got payed. I know my story is an anecdote but I can't help but feel that it's not an uncommon experience for drivers to feel taken advantage of or that the anti-Uber propaganda wouldn't be nearly as effective if their most visible public faces didn't feel used by the company. I know mine is an anecdote and should be taken with a heavy grain of salt but I can't help but imagine that if Uber drivers as a whole were happier and better comped, say with in app tipping, that the overall perception of Uber would be better and drivers would be much more excited to recommend the service to their friends and family.
        rtx 9y ago
  - oceanbreeze83 9y ago
    double edged sword and/or two sides of the same coin
  - watwut 9y ago
    I would much rather celebrated people who having choice between gain and morality choose morality. Uber behavior made it harder for less law breaking less immoral to succeed for a time. "Being ruthless" is not double edged sword - it is simply unethical behavior that gives you advantage. That is all there is to it. More ethical CEOs face challenges too, pretty much the same challenges.
    - noway421 9y ago
      It's not necessarily that Travis acknowledges that he acts immoral. After all, he was always talking about fighting unjust and greedy taxi companies who are robbing their customers. Surely he slipped with the whole UberX and driver's pay going way to low, but that was a necessary measure against Lyft taking up the untapped market. Would be interesting to hear how he feels about that whole thing and whether he regrets doing the thing which he essentially had to do. In regard to self-driving, Google would have taken the place and drove Uber out of business if Uber didn't start getting on the same train. In that regard, there's not much empathy you can hold for drivers as their profession becomes a thing of the past.
      - gizmo 9y ago
        > was a necessary measure Ah yes, the favorite excuse of scoundrels. It was "necessary". Of course it was also "necessary" for Uber drivers to feed their kids. But hey, can't worry about that, we gotta disrupt!
      - inimino 9y ago
        > doing the thing which he essentially had to do That's not how morality works.
      - watwut 9y ago
        > but that was a necessary measure against Lyft taking up the untapped market > Google would have taken the place and drove Uber out of business That is exactly what I am talking. "I wanted to win against them" might be an explanation, but not a freaking excuse. Having choice between getting advantage and not doing something unethical, Uber consistently chosen unethical. Feeling bad about those things once you get caught is probably nicer then not feeling bad, but does not make all that much difference in real world. How you feel does not changes impact of your actions on other people nor their morality. > After all, he was always talking about fighting unjust and greedy taxi companies who are robbing their customers. But somehow when taxi companies are as greedy as him and as unjust as him, then it is bad. Or rather, this was just populism/propaganda to turn people against competitors and regulators - to gain advantage for himself. > In that regard, there's not much empathy you can hold for drivers as their profession becomes a thing of the past. Yeah and Paris taxi driver who cut tires of Uber car did what was necessary to fight Uber. Sure he essentially did what he had to do and sure since he certainly feels bad about it after being caught then it is fine. I mean, if I claim my collegue achievments my own or badmouth him behind back to make him look less capable and put myself up, then I am just essentially doing what I have to do, right?
  - DavidFlint 9y ago
    While yes, he achieved a lot, I cannot agree on praising him. This reminds me of all the marketing gurus from 5 years ago that were selling rich quick schemes. They sold a product, they got rich, but in the end they were scamming regular people. While Travis is not scamming anyone, the methods are similar. Get rich by exploiting barely legal methods, unethical ways and ride to the fame using someone else money.
    - product50 9y ago
      I'd argue to build a company like Uber, he needed to stay on the edge of law given the archaic regulations and active lobbying by incumbents. Eventually, the improvement in the quality of life of 100s of millions of users who use Uber regularly vindicates his efforts.
  - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
    "[...] in markets which had regulations [...]" Sounds like some guys during the prohibition if they could have filed for an IPO.
  - mft_ 9y ago
    I agree that what Uber have done --and are still doing-- is particularly impressive, and took a particular type of leader and team. There is no current comparison I can think of. I also agree strongly with another poster that the current vein of media focus on Uber is suspicious. It makes me worry about lazy reporting --any story about Uber gets noticed, no matter how irrelevant-- and also about who is actively funding an anti-Uber PR campaign - big established taxi companies, possibly? As time goes on, the media's approach makes me more and more sympathetic towards Travis and Uber, not less. However... everyone should have some standards. It should be possible to run a high-achieving company without requiring or tolerating behaviour ranging from sexism to overt harassment. And the recent example of a rape victim's medical records being acquired and shared is particularly egregious - irrespective of their suspicions, that was well beyond a line, and the perpetrator should have been immediately fired. I'm always a fan of the newspaper test - don't do anything you'd be ashamed of appearing on the front page of a major newspaper. Many of the things that Uber are criticised for, they'd probably be (rightly) proud of being publicised. But not all.
  - vhhhggv 9y ago
    > This guy built $70B company from scratch Are you kidding me? Most of that is paid for by the Saudis, VCs, and their ilk.
  - objclxt 9y ago
    > What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? It's true, I haven't condoned obtaining the confidential medical records of a rape victim by my direct report, ignored dozens of sexual harassment complaints by my employees, or attempted to suppress an HR complaint about me taking my managers to an escort bar in Korea. I am being deliberately facetious, but your argument "what have you done lately?" is a double edged sword. Yeah, nobody here has done what Travis did running Uber - including all the shit (both proven and allegedly).
    - SirensOfTitan 9y ago
      Indeed. Most of this thread comes across incredibly reductionist as if it were possible to categorize someone as good or evil. Surely Travis acts as an effective executive in some cases and a poor one in others. Context has deep importance in evaluating people.
  - pishpash 9y ago
    Kalanick deserves respect, undoubtedly. If he is wise, he will also recognize that some compartmentalization or evolution in how he approaches the whole endeavor is a natural part of the growth of an entity entering a more stable and mature phase. You do not fight the same battles in the whole war.
  - klfasdf77 9y ago
    "This guy built" All on his own, too, yeah? No one else had a hand in it. "You'll earn what our algorithm says is the appropriate rate." He basically abused people's need to eat and put a roof over their head. It's more neoliberal capitalism. How incredible! I'm so glad this guy in SV is fixing problems in my town! In whatever way he decides is appropriate! I fear that when he dies we'll not have a hero knight to come along and save us from the oppression that is taxi service! Societies oppressors have been defeated! It's one thing to call people out for straight up nonsense. It's another to peddle nonsense in its place. Hot forum troll on forum troll action here.
  - adrianmonk 9y ago
    They're now losing market share to Lyft. A lot of it coincides with stuff he has done to bring the company bad PR.
- tyingq 9y ago
  The article mentions he still has voting control, so I would stay tuned. The board appears to have no teeth as far as Kalanick is concerned.
- rdiddly 9y ago
  It's LOSE, not loose. Sorry, this is apparently the one occurrence that sent me over the edge. Lose rhymes with news. Loose rhymes with Bruce. If you can say "Bruce is in the news," you're halfway there. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bruce+news&kp=-2&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bruce+news&kp=-2&ia=news You can lose a fight, lose money, lose your wallet. You can fight a losing battle, you can be a loser baby. Rikki shouldn't lose that number. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zqf35Rm1Fg&t=00m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zqf35Rm1Fg&t=00m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA You can be born to lose like Ray Price or Ray Charles. Or you can be born to lose like Lemmy. Or like Johnny Thunders you can be born to lose, but then everybody always wonders if it's really "Born Too Loose." Don't pay attention to that shit yet, that's far too advanced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4fMEJUDhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4fMEJUDhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOmizjm0Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOmizjm0Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLowvi4bP18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLowvi4bP18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQoDCEKZyQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQoDCEKZyQw Loose is mainly an adjective as in loose booty, loose women, loose screws. You can hold on loosely, you can bust loose; you have the choice of givin it up or turnin it loose, you can be on the loose, or you can be let loose from the noose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HIIErMKNnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HIIErMKNnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHi10qX8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHi10qX8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=921kqkHOHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=921kqkHOHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7XbV82JfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7XbV82JfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA&t=00m31s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA&t=00m31s You can't really loose too many things (as a verb), unless you want to sound somewhat archaic... but if you did, it would essentially mean "turn loose" or "make loose." Like "Loose the hounds" or "Loose the shackles," or "Loose the fury of Hell itself upon those who mix up 'loose' and 'lose.'"
jeffjose 9y ago
Travis Kalanick's rise was the result of Silicon Valley's sincere yearning for an irreverent CEO when Steve Jobs passed away. We were collectively willing to overlook any blemishes in the young company, which set up for failure in the long run. I sometimes wonder if Steve Jobs had still been alive, would he have been revered as much as he was in the 2010s? His management style would have sooner or later caused permanent damage to someone you and I personally know. And that's where we'd have drawn the line.
- golemotron 9y ago
  I think it's important to notice that what you are talking about is a zeitgeist change. In the time that Jobs was building organizations the consensus was that work (particularly work by engineers with options) was a voluntary contract and if you didn't like how you were being treated you moved to another job. The flip side to your point that no one articulates today is that some people with thicker skin like very challenging environments - like a Jobs-ian company that makes them feel like they are part of a a group of with real intensity that is changing the world, and Apple surely did. Where we mess up today is in thinking that there is one right type of work experience for everyone.: the mythical "we" that you write about in "And that's where we'd have drawn the line." Maybe it's better to have many diverse workplace cultures and let people chose among them based upon their individual wants and temperaments.
  - wayn3 9y ago
    but not at the expense of offending anyone who is potentially not even part of that group
  - malandrew 9y ago
    This. So much this. Diversity of workplaces is something we should celebrate, yet the media and activists are keen on converting every workplace into their ideal. Not everyone desires to work at the same company. Some people want to work at an Apple, some want to work at a s Google, some just want to work on a hippie commune/coop, and some want to work at a high pace, high states, only the toughest, most productive, most driven survive company like Uber. If you don't like how a company is run, you have two options: 1) build the company culture of your dreams from scratch from first principles 2) let someone else do all the hard work of creating value and then show up later and colonize that company and try to change its culture to match your ideal. Hopefully, if you're enlightened you've given some though to how to maintain the positive aspects of that company's culture before you attempt to foist upon its employees your ideal of how it should function. At the end of the day, employment is at will. If someone doesn't like the way a company is run, they should try to change it from the inside as an employee or move on to another company if they fail to change it. Outsiders, on the other hand, should stay out of it. If you don't like how a company is run, and you don't work there, fuck off. If you really want a company to be run differently, get hired there so your financial success is at least aligned with all the other employees before you try to influence the culture.
Velin 9y ago
Well his parents just had an accident, too...
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Hasn't he already put a lot of eggs in that Chinese company?
davidpelayo 9y ago
Who cares if the company it's rotting inside if they keep generating traction and interest? What a shame!
- moxious 9y ago
  That's excessively cynical. They have a lot of problems but keep in mind the reason this article exists is that they're doing an internal investigation and there's a potential for a big shakeup to address some of these problems. There's plenty of time to be cynical later if it turns out this is just kabuki theater. I'm suspending judgment until we see what will actually change.
  - furioussloth 9y ago
    I agree that even if they try to do the right thing. Nothing pleases these highly moral, gate-keepers of ethics on this forum. I love their service. I feel they have done a lot of good in this society. Saved many drunk-driving accidents. Yes every company has bad seeds. We know about Uber's problems because reporters love reporting it for click-baits. Being a woman who has worked in software industry i can tell you that issue exist in pretty much every company. I am glad to see Uber trying to fix theirs.
enraged_camel 9y ago
Wow, this has almost dropped off the front page. I guess the Uber fans are out in force...
- philovivero 9y ago
  Or maybe people just don't care anymore for NYtimes articles that cite "source." Fabricated clickbait is real.
mathattack 9y ago
The board can't force him out if he doesn't want to go, can it? (Due to his special shares) Can the company thrive with someone else running it? And will it be obvious enough for Travis to see this? (How do you fight all the local taxi commissions without a combative streak?) I wonder if this will eventually cause companies to think twice about this type of governance.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kunaalarya 9y ago
  They prob cant fire him but they can say that hes a big punching bag right now and bringing extra negative attention and he needs a break.
  - zoomzippity 9y ago
    Zuckerberg didn't need a break and Facebook turned out fine. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-Zuckerberg-The-sex-sleaze-secrets-Facebooks-little-emperor.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-Zuckerb... All the company needs is some pressure to shore up some long overdue culture debt. This is the fastest growing company in history after all. Not every aspect of the company was going to come out of the over perfectly baked when you grow that quickly. Uber isn't the first successful startup with this issue and it won't be the last. Replacing the leader would be a terrible mistake. I'm not a religious person, but I do wish more people were familiar with the lesson taught in the parables of the Lost Son, Lost Sheep or Lost Coin. Redemption is always possible. Society as a whole would be much better off if we gave more people a chance to redeem themselves. Not considering people capable of redemption and considering people deserving of punishment without mercy is the reason we (the United States) have the disaster that is the largest incarcerated population in the World. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son
    - wideem 9y ago
      Well, companies are not religious cults. And ceos are way overrated in the US. I feel like Travis is way to egocentric and that's bad for company http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/its-time-end-cult-ceo/leadership-lessons/article/1431285 http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/its-time-end-cult-ceo/leade...
thrwitaway11 9y ago
Kalanick's mom death seems odd to me... they were on inexpensive speed boat and his father lives but she doesn't?
- dang 9y ago
  We've banned this account. Commenting like this will eventually get your main account banned as well.
  - thrwitaway11 9y ago
    Pardon was not inferring anything devious ... just pondering its a tragedy and that is an odd thing to occur present day amidst all the terrible things/bad behavior that has been in the press lately about Uber. It's like a story out of Shakespeare.
    - dang 9y ago
      OK, sorry for misreading your intent. We've unbanned you. It would be a good idea to include an elaboration like this one when you originally post on an inflammatory topic—otherwise it tends to produce flames whether you meant to or not.
dacox 9y ago
This may not be the place for it, but: what's the deal with Uber not rolling out in Western Canada? I know the government hates them, but didn't they launch illegally like...everywhere else?
- tobyjsullivan 9y ago
  Vancouver was one of the first cities they launched in. And one of the first they got booted out of. My personal theory is we're actually a crap market for Uber. We'd obviously love ride sharing but realistically the alternatives (transit, walkability, car share) are simply quite good. Even our cabs aren't that expensive compared to other cities where Uber has really caught on. We'd use Uber, just not that much.
  - kintalo 9y ago
    Vancouver is getting Uber back by end of 2017: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-taxi-1.4013315 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-taxi-1.401...
- smnrchrds 9y ago
  They operate in Calgary and Edmonton.
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    Heck, Alberta is providing a model for how to regulate and insure Uber drivers. The only reason the rollout was paused last year was because the insurance issue couldn't be resolved in time. That has since been resolved and Uber is absolutely operating in the province.
kolbe 9y ago
Sorry to be crass, but fuck this. I hate Travis's attitude as much as anyone, but no man who has achieved something as great as Uber deserves to go out like this--at the hands of some board members who rode his coat tail to riches. Reminds me of Apple marginalizing Steve Jobs. Fuck that. I want to see Travis face up to his immoral bullshit as much as anyone, but by Lyft pummeling Uber into the ground, not some cowardly vote from the board.
- eropple 9y ago
  So this isn't snark: explain to me what Uber's done that's "great"? They burn VC money in a trash bin in pursuit of a business model that looks totally nonviable unless one achieves a monopolistic position or pays below-minimum-wage rates (as that seems to be what the race to the bottom is for drivers). I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of those board members were rich before Uber and will be rich after Uber dissipates.
  - wayn3 9y ago
    their drivers are the training set for their self driving cars. thats how they want to become profitable.
    - stingrae 9y ago
      drivers could be helping make better maps, but I doubt that uber is able to use a cell phone to really create a usable training set for self driving. If every drivers car had cameras and lidar, that would be different.
      - wayn3 9y ago
        im not saying that the plan is particularly well executed.
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      Ahh yes, that self-driving tech that they totally 100% developed on their own and didn't steal from anyone else, right?
WisNorCan 9y ago
Now there is reporting that Chief Business Officer, Emil Michael is out as well. [1][2] I guess the Holder investigation wasn't as toothless as people had initially worried. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/emil-michael-uber-chief-business-officer-to-leave-company-report-2017-6?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/emil-michael-uber-chief-busin... [2] https://www.axios.com/top-uber-exec-emil-michael-to-resign-2439849459.html https://www.axios.com/top-uber-exec-emil-michael-to-resign-2...
Animats 9y ago
The funny thing is that Kalanick may be pushed out over sexual harassment of a few people. Not for systematically underpaying several hundred thousand people. Not for creating a financial structure that's about a year from collapse.
- fullshark 9y ago
  I thought the problem was overpaying several hundred thousand people?
  - jo909 9y ago
    Or undercharging several hundred thousand customers? (Not earning enough)
    - zoomzippity 9y ago
      Demand would drop if they charged more. This would have the following potential results: - all driver earn more per trip, but may not make more per hour since there would be fewer trips to accept - drivers who see a drop in the number of trips will be earning less or will have to exit the market if they don't earn enough. - only when some drivers choose to exit the market would the remaining drivers be able to earn more per trip and and accept the same number of rides per hour. Any company following Uber's loss leading strategy at the end of the day is fomenting more liquidity in order to gauge how much more demand there is at a lower price point. That gives them a profitability target to work towards by becoming more efficient.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  The sexual harassment is more unusual and thus attention-worthy, though. We're so used to large corporations routinely screwing over their employees that it just becomes par for the course, and results in class-action settlements and maybe a few news articles but nothing else. Rampant sexual harassment at a company, however, is more newsworthy, and gets people paying attention.
furioussloth 9y ago
Well CEO's mother passed away and father is still in hospital. I feel his absence is totally normal IMO. Most of Uber news on this board are total click baits. I agree with many people who feel the anti-Uber lazy reporting is out of control.
- uhnuhnuhn 9y ago
  You misunderstood. This is not about a current absence of the CEO, this is about the board debating to potentially force the CEO to take leave of absence.

170 points by troydavis 9y ago

Something wrong about this: someone in power being held accoutable for their incompetence and bad behavior. Or did he just loose some rich people too much money?

jeffjose 9y ago
Both actually. When the long-term prospects of the company are dragged down because of the CEO, its time for some changes.
product50 9y ago
What incompetence? This guy built $70B company from scratch in markets which had regulations and very active taxi unions lobbying against the very existence of the company. More importantly, Uber has helped improve the lives of hundreds of millions of commuters across the globe. What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? Also, it is important to understand that his "always hustling" and "being ruthless" or "never say die" attitude are a double edged sword. The same attitude has served him very well when taking on local governments to push his service through - but is creating a number of challenges at running a company which has now become quite big.
- jeffjose 9y ago
  > What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? At the risk of going on a tangent - isn't this ad hominem? Imagine for a second, someone profoundly successful made the statement OP made. Does your outlook change then?
  - thanksgiving 9y ago
    I'd say no because nobody, not even Sergei and Larry, not even the devil incarnate at the database company, not anyone in silicon valley has done what Travis and his team have done. I was never a fan of ubers because like Dropbox I thought it was too simplistic and too easily replaceable. I've become more wary of the anti uber propaganda lately. I'm more suspicious of the press than ever. When I read some news all I can think of is which ax are they grinding there. The constant onslaught of anti uber propaganda makes me think something is wrong here. If Travis loses, it will be a teachable moment for other unicorns. What lessons can we learn about what he did incorrectly in stacking the board? How can a CEO/founder prevent a coup?
    - castis 9y ago
      > How can a CEO/founder prevent a coup? Don't give people a reason to dislike you.
      - JonFish85 9y ago
        Or set up the stock plan in such a way that you're untouchable (e.g. Snapchat's Evan Spiegel).
    - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
      For what it's worth anti-Uber propaganda wouldn't have rung true for me nearly as well had a friend not driven for Uber and reported back how little he got payed. I know my story is an anecdote but I can't help but feel that it's not an uncommon experience for drivers to feel taken advantage of or that the anti-Uber propaganda wouldn't be nearly as effective if their most visible public faces didn't feel used by the company. I know mine is an anecdote and should be taken with a heavy grain of salt but I can't help but imagine that if Uber drivers as a whole were happier and better comped, say with in app tipping, that the overall perception of Uber would be better and drivers would be much more excited to recommend the service to their friends and family.
      - rtx 9y ago
- oceanbreeze83 9y ago
  double edged sword and/or two sides of the same coin
- watwut 9y ago
  I would much rather celebrated people who having choice between gain and morality choose morality. Uber behavior made it harder for less law breaking less immoral to succeed for a time. "Being ruthless" is not double edged sword - it is simply unethical behavior that gives you advantage. That is all there is to it. More ethical CEOs face challenges too, pretty much the same challenges.
  - noway421 9y ago
    It's not necessarily that Travis acknowledges that he acts immoral. After all, he was always talking about fighting unjust and greedy taxi companies who are robbing their customers. Surely he slipped with the whole UberX and driver's pay going way to low, but that was a necessary measure against Lyft taking up the untapped market. Would be interesting to hear how he feels about that whole thing and whether he regrets doing the thing which he essentially had to do. In regard to self-driving, Google would have taken the place and drove Uber out of business if Uber didn't start getting on the same train. In that regard, there's not much empathy you can hold for drivers as their profession becomes a thing of the past.
    - gizmo 9y ago
      > was a necessary measure Ah yes, the favorite excuse of scoundrels. It was "necessary". Of course it was also "necessary" for Uber drivers to feed their kids. But hey, can't worry about that, we gotta disrupt!
    - inimino 9y ago
      > doing the thing which he essentially had to do That's not how morality works.
    - watwut 9y ago
      > but that was a necessary measure against Lyft taking up the untapped market > Google would have taken the place and drove Uber out of business That is exactly what I am talking. "I wanted to win against them" might be an explanation, but not a freaking excuse. Having choice between getting advantage and not doing something unethical, Uber consistently chosen unethical. Feeling bad about those things once you get caught is probably nicer then not feeling bad, but does not make all that much difference in real world. How you feel does not changes impact of your actions on other people nor their morality. > After all, he was always talking about fighting unjust and greedy taxi companies who are robbing their customers. But somehow when taxi companies are as greedy as him and as unjust as him, then it is bad. Or rather, this was just populism/propaganda to turn people against competitors and regulators - to gain advantage for himself. > In that regard, there's not much empathy you can hold for drivers as their profession becomes a thing of the past. Yeah and Paris taxi driver who cut tires of Uber car did what was necessary to fight Uber. Sure he essentially did what he had to do and sure since he certainly feels bad about it after being caught then it is fine. I mean, if I claim my collegue achievments my own or badmouth him behind back to make him look less capable and put myself up, then I am just essentially doing what I have to do, right?
- DavidFlint 9y ago
  While yes, he achieved a lot, I cannot agree on praising him. This reminds me of all the marketing gurus from 5 years ago that were selling rich quick schemes. They sold a product, they got rich, but in the end they were scamming regular people. While Travis is not scamming anyone, the methods are similar. Get rich by exploiting barely legal methods, unethical ways and ride to the fame using someone else money.
  - product50 9y ago
    I'd argue to build a company like Uber, he needed to stay on the edge of law given the archaic regulations and active lobbying by incumbents. Eventually, the improvement in the quality of life of 100s of millions of users who use Uber regularly vindicates his efforts.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  "[...] in markets which had regulations [...]" Sounds like some guys during the prohibition if they could have filed for an IPO.
- mft_ 9y ago
  I agree that what Uber have done --and are still doing-- is particularly impressive, and took a particular type of leader and team. There is no current comparison I can think of. I also agree strongly with another poster that the current vein of media focus on Uber is suspicious. It makes me worry about lazy reporting --any story about Uber gets noticed, no matter how irrelevant-- and also about who is actively funding an anti-Uber PR campaign - big established taxi companies, possibly? As time goes on, the media's approach makes me more and more sympathetic towards Travis and Uber, not less. However... everyone should have some standards. It should be possible to run a high-achieving company without requiring or tolerating behaviour ranging from sexism to overt harassment. And the recent example of a rape victim's medical records being acquired and shared is particularly egregious - irrespective of their suspicions, that was well beyond a line, and the perpetrator should have been immediately fired. I'm always a fan of the newspaper test - don't do anything you'd be ashamed of appearing on the front page of a major newspaper. Many of the things that Uber are criticised for, they'd probably be (rightly) proud of being publicised. But not all.
- vhhhggv 9y ago
  > This guy built $70B company from scratch Are you kidding me? Most of that is paid for by the Saudis, VCs, and their ilk.
- objclxt 9y ago
  > What have you done lately which is anything close to what Travis built vs. just commenting on a tech forum at his incompetence? It's true, I haven't condoned obtaining the confidential medical records of a rape victim by my direct report, ignored dozens of sexual harassment complaints by my employees, or attempted to suppress an HR complaint about me taking my managers to an escort bar in Korea. I am being deliberately facetious, but your argument "what have you done lately?" is a double edged sword. Yeah, nobody here has done what Travis did running Uber - including all the shit (both proven and allegedly).
  - SirensOfTitan 9y ago
    Indeed. Most of this thread comes across incredibly reductionist as if it were possible to categorize someone as good or evil. Surely Travis acts as an effective executive in some cases and a poor one in others. Context has deep importance in evaluating people.
- pishpash 9y ago
  Kalanick deserves respect, undoubtedly. If he is wise, he will also recognize that some compartmentalization or evolution in how he approaches the whole endeavor is a natural part of the growth of an entity entering a more stable and mature phase. You do not fight the same battles in the whole war.
- klfasdf77 9y ago
  "This guy built" All on his own, too, yeah? No one else had a hand in it. "You'll earn what our algorithm says is the appropriate rate." He basically abused people's need to eat and put a roof over their head. It's more neoliberal capitalism. How incredible! I'm so glad this guy in SV is fixing problems in my town! In whatever way he decides is appropriate! I fear that when he dies we'll not have a hero knight to come along and save us from the oppression that is taxi service! Societies oppressors have been defeated! It's one thing to call people out for straight up nonsense. It's another to peddle nonsense in its place. Hot forum troll on forum troll action here.
- adrianmonk 9y ago
  They're now losing market share to Lyft. A lot of it coincides with stuff he has done to bring the company bad PR.
tyingq 9y ago
The article mentions he still has voting control, so I would stay tuned. The board appears to have no teeth as far as Kalanick is concerned.
rdiddly 9y ago
It's LOSE, not loose. Sorry, this is apparently the one occurrence that sent me over the edge. Lose rhymes with news. Loose rhymes with Bruce. If you can say "Bruce is in the news," you're halfway there. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bruce+news&kp=-2&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bruce+news&kp=-2&ia=news You can lose a fight, lose money, lose your wallet. You can fight a losing battle, you can be a loser baby. Rikki shouldn't lose that number. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zqf35Rm1Fg&t=00m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zqf35Rm1Fg&t=00m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA You can be born to lose like Ray Price or Ray Charles. Or you can be born to lose like Lemmy. Or like Johnny Thunders you can be born to lose, but then everybody always wonders if it's really "Born Too Loose." Don't pay attention to that shit yet, that's far too advanced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4fMEJUDhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4fMEJUDhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOmizjm0Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsOmizjm0Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWB5JZRGl0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLowvi4bP18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLowvi4bP18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQoDCEKZyQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQoDCEKZyQw Loose is mainly an adjective as in loose booty, loose women, loose screws. You can hold on loosely, you can bust loose; you have the choice of givin it up or turnin it loose, you can be on the loose, or you can be let loose from the noose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HIIErMKNnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HIIErMKNnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHi10qX8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHi10qX8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=921kqkHOHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=921kqkHOHDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7XbV82JfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7XbV82JfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA&t=00m31s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA&t=00m31s You can't really loose too many things (as a verb), unless you want to sound somewhat archaic... but if you did, it would essentially mean "turn loose" or "make loose." Like "Loose the hounds" or "Loose the shackles," or "Loose the fury of Hell itself upon those who mix up 'loose' and 'lose.'"

jeffjose 9y ago

Travis Kalanick's rise was the result of Silicon Valley's sincere yearning for an irreverent CEO when Steve Jobs passed away. We were collectively willing to overlook any blemishes in the young company, which set up for failure in the long run. I sometimes wonder if Steve Jobs had still been alive, would he have been revered as much as he was in the 2010s? His management style would have sooner or later caused permanent damage to someone you and I personally know. And that's where we'd have drawn the line.

golemotron 9y ago
I think it's important to notice that what you are talking about is a zeitgeist change. In the time that Jobs was building organizations the consensus was that work (particularly work by engineers with options) was a voluntary contract and if you didn't like how you were being treated you moved to another job. The flip side to your point that no one articulates today is that some people with thicker skin like very challenging environments - like a Jobs-ian company that makes them feel like they are part of a a group of with real intensity that is changing the world, and Apple surely did. Where we mess up today is in thinking that there is one right type of work experience for everyone.: the mythical "we" that you write about in "And that's where we'd have drawn the line." Maybe it's better to have many diverse workplace cultures and let people chose among them based upon their individual wants and temperaments.
- wayn3 9y ago
  but not at the expense of offending anyone who is potentially not even part of that group
- malandrew 9y ago
  This. So much this. Diversity of workplaces is something we should celebrate, yet the media and activists are keen on converting every workplace into their ideal. Not everyone desires to work at the same company. Some people want to work at an Apple, some want to work at a s Google, some just want to work on a hippie commune/coop, and some want to work at a high pace, high states, only the toughest, most productive, most driven survive company like Uber. If you don't like how a company is run, you have two options: 1) build the company culture of your dreams from scratch from first principles 2) let someone else do all the hard work of creating value and then show up later and colonize that company and try to change its culture to match your ideal. Hopefully, if you're enlightened you've given some though to how to maintain the positive aspects of that company's culture before you attempt to foist upon its employees your ideal of how it should function. At the end of the day, employment is at will. If someone doesn't like the way a company is run, they should try to change it from the inside as an employee or move on to another company if they fail to change it. Outsiders, on the other hand, should stay out of it. If you don't like how a company is run, and you don't work there, fuck off. If you really want a company to be run differently, get hired there so your financial success is at least aligned with all the other employees before you try to influence the culture.

Velin 9y ago

Well his parents just had an accident, too...

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

Hasn't he already put a lot of eggs in that Chinese company?

davidpelayo 9y ago

Who cares if the company it's rotting inside if they keep generating traction and interest? What a shame!

moxious 9y ago
That's excessively cynical. They have a lot of problems but keep in mind the reason this article exists is that they're doing an internal investigation and there's a potential for a big shakeup to address some of these problems. There's plenty of time to be cynical later if it turns out this is just kabuki theater. I'm suspending judgment until we see what will actually change.
- furioussloth 9y ago
  I agree that even if they try to do the right thing. Nothing pleases these highly moral, gate-keepers of ethics on this forum. I love their service. I feel they have done a lot of good in this society. Saved many drunk-driving accidents. Yes every company has bad seeds. We know about Uber's problems because reporters love reporting it for click-baits. Being a woman who has worked in software industry i can tell you that issue exist in pretty much every company. I am glad to see Uber trying to fix theirs.

enraged_camel 9y ago

Wow, this has almost dropped off the front page. I guess the Uber fans are out in force...

philovivero 9y ago
Or maybe people just don't care anymore for NYtimes articles that cite "source." Fabricated clickbait is real.

mathattack 9y ago

The board can't force him out if he doesn't want to go, can it? (Due to his special shares) Can the company thrive with someone else running it? And will it be obvious enough for Travis to see this? (How do you fight all the local taxi commissions without a combative streak?) I wonder if this will eventually cause companies to think twice about this type of governance.

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kunaalarya 9y ago
They prob cant fire him but they can say that hes a big punching bag right now and bringing extra negative attention and he needs a break.
- zoomzippity 9y ago
  Zuckerberg didn't need a break and Facebook turned out fine. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-Zuckerberg-The-sex-sleaze-secrets-Facebooks-little-emperor.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165566/Mark-Zuckerb... All the company needs is some pressure to shore up some long overdue culture debt. This is the fastest growing company in history after all. Not every aspect of the company was going to come out of the over perfectly baked when you grow that quickly. Uber isn't the first successful startup with this issue and it won't be the last. Replacing the leader would be a terrible mistake. I'm not a religious person, but I do wish more people were familiar with the lesson taught in the parables of the Lost Son, Lost Sheep or Lost Coin. Redemption is always possible. Society as a whole would be much better off if we gave more people a chance to redeem themselves. Not considering people capable of redemption and considering people deserving of punishment without mercy is the reason we (the United States) have the disaster that is the largest incarcerated population in the World. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Prodigal_Son
  - wideem 9y ago
    Well, companies are not religious cults. And ceos are way overrated in the US. I feel like Travis is way to egocentric and that's bad for company http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/its-time-end-cult-ceo/leadership-lessons/article/1431285 http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/its-time-end-cult-ceo/leade...

thrwitaway11 9y ago

Kalanick's mom death seems odd to me... they were on inexpensive speed boat and his father lives but she doesn't?

dang 9y ago
We've banned this account. Commenting like this will eventually get your main account banned as well.
- thrwitaway11 9y ago
  Pardon was not inferring anything devious ... just pondering its a tragedy and that is an odd thing to occur present day amidst all the terrible things/bad behavior that has been in the press lately about Uber. It's like a story out of Shakespeare.
  - dang 9y ago
    OK, sorry for misreading your intent. We've unbanned you. It would be a good idea to include an elaboration like this one when you originally post on an inflammatory topic—otherwise it tends to produce flames whether you meant to or not.

dacox 9y ago

This may not be the place for it, but: what's the deal with Uber not rolling out in Western Canada? I know the government hates them, but didn't they launch illegally like...everywhere else?

tobyjsullivan 9y ago
Vancouver was one of the first cities they launched in. And one of the first they got booted out of. My personal theory is we're actually a crap market for Uber. We'd obviously love ride sharing but realistically the alternatives (transit, walkability, car share) are simply quite good. Even our cabs aren't that expensive compared to other cities where Uber has really caught on. We'd use Uber, just not that much.
- kintalo 9y ago
  Vancouver is getting Uber back by end of 2017: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-taxi-1.4013315 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-taxi-1.401...
smnrchrds 9y ago
They operate in Calgary and Edmonton.
- zzalpha 9y ago
  Heck, Alberta is providing a model for how to regulate and insure Uber drivers. The only reason the rollout was paused last year was because the insurance issue couldn't be resolved in time. That has since been resolved and Uber is absolutely operating in the province.

kolbe 9y ago

Sorry to be crass, but fuck this. I hate Travis's attitude as much as anyone, but no man who has achieved something as great as Uber deserves to go out like this--at the hands of some board members who rode his coat tail to riches. Reminds me of Apple marginalizing Steve Jobs. Fuck that. I want to see Travis face up to his immoral bullshit as much as anyone, but by Lyft pummeling Uber into the ground, not some cowardly vote from the board.

eropple 9y ago
So this isn't snark: explain to me what Uber's done that's "great"? They burn VC money in a trash bin in pursuit of a business model that looks totally nonviable unless one achieves a monopolistic position or pays below-minimum-wage rates (as that seems to be what the race to the bottom is for drivers). I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of those board members were rich before Uber and will be rich after Uber dissipates.
- wayn3 9y ago
  their drivers are the training set for their self driving cars. thats how they want to become profitable.
  - stingrae 9y ago
    drivers could be helping make better maps, but I doubt that uber is able to use a cell phone to really create a usable training set for self driving. If every drivers car had cameras and lidar, that would be different.
    - wayn3 9y ago
      im not saying that the plan is particularly well executed.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Ahh yes, that self-driving tech that they totally 100% developed on their own and didn't steal from anyone else, right?

WisNorCan 9y ago

Now there is reporting that Chief Business Officer, Emil Michael is out as well. [1][2] I guess the Holder investigation wasn't as toothless as people had initially worried. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/emil-michael-uber-chief-business-officer-to-leave-company-report-2017-6?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/emil-michael-uber-chief-busin... [2] https://www.axios.com/top-uber-exec-emil-michael-to-resign-2439849459.html https://www.axios.com/top-uber-exec-emil-michael-to-resign-2...

Animats 9y ago

The funny thing is that Kalanick may be pushed out over sexual harassment of a few people. Not for systematically underpaying several hundred thousand people. Not for creating a financial structure that's about a year from collapse.

fullshark 9y ago
I thought the problem was overpaying several hundred thousand people?
- jo909 9y ago
  Or undercharging several hundred thousand customers? (Not earning enough)
  - zoomzippity 9y ago
    Demand would drop if they charged more. This would have the following potential results: - all driver earn more per trip, but may not make more per hour since there would be fewer trips to accept - drivers who see a drop in the number of trips will be earning less or will have to exit the market if they don't earn enough. - only when some drivers choose to exit the market would the remaining drivers be able to earn more per trip and and accept the same number of rides per hour. Any company following Uber's loss leading strategy at the end of the day is fomenting more liquidity in order to gauge how much more demand there is at a lower price point. That gives them a profitability target to work towards by becoming more efficient.
CydeWeys 9y ago
The sexual harassment is more unusual and thus attention-worthy, though. We're so used to large corporations routinely screwing over their employees that it just becomes par for the course, and results in class-action settlements and maybe a few news articles but nothing else. Rampant sexual harassment at a company, however, is more newsworthy, and gets people paying attention.

furioussloth 9y ago

Well CEO's mother passed away and father is still in hospital. I feel his absence is totally normal IMO. Most of Uber news on this board are total click baits. I agree with many people who feel the anti-Uber lazy reporting is out of control.

uhnuhnuhn 9y ago
You misunderstood. This is not about a current absence of the CEO, this is about the board debating to potentially force the CEO to take leave of absence.