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Actually, you're not far off! Where else would the next major advance come from, if not from raising our collective consciousness through games (cheap focused

by Radim 9y ago

Actually, you're not far off! Where else would the next major advance come from, if not from raising our collective consciousness through games (cheap focused simulations) and articulate story-telling (social alignment and morality correction)? We're not robots, to somehow perceive objective reality independently and logically. I certainly believe story-tellers and players are absolutely critical if humanity is to pull through. In the "standing on the shoulders of giants" kind of way: incremental digging at what really matters. And the free market seems to agree, as people who are good at this are among the highest valued individuals, however you choose to measure value (money, social status, attention...). What makes you think you could assign value better? Just curious -- what do you see as the "current existential dangers"?

taneq 9y ago
> Where else would the next major advance come from? Probably from sustained and detailed study of the universe around us and the way it works. That's how we figure out most things. Not that (board) games can't be useful as training but IMO they're a form of navel-gazing. (Games based on high fidelity simulations are definitely useful - look at the AI research using GTA5 as a simulator for self-driving cars, for instance.) > I certainly believe story-tellers and players are absolutely critical if humanity is to pull through. In the sense of us dealing with our own demons and learning how to handle the general awfulness of reality (ie. psychology / philosophy), I completely agree. In the sense of us dealing with outside challenges, though, not so much. > Just curious -- what do you see as the "current existential dangers"? Right now? Our current economic system is close to its limits, with a growing percentage of humans permanently unemployed and that percentage is growing rapidly with new tech. Various ecological systems are collapsing. (eg. pollinators like bees being wiped out by insecticides - have you ever read John Christopher's "Death of Grass"?) Runaway climate change is a real possibility (ocean warming causing methane clathrates to release large amounts of methane into the atmosphere). Higher human populations and population densities increasing the evolution rate of diseases beyond what our immune systems can handle. And all that on a backdrop of a looming AI singularity which even in the best case will make the world weird and confusing beyond the comprehension of baseline humans. There's a lot going on.
- Radim 9y ago
  Again, agreed for the most part. I just think you're underestimating the power of (board or otherwise) games, how they capture and reflect patterns of reality that are not immediately apparent or not directly useful (or even verbalizable). There's this deep connection between curiosity, idle fun and problem solving. The idea of driving people to "sustained and detailed scientific studies" to tackle "existential threats"... that is just not how the world works. Innovation doesn't happen by committee. It happens by making weird connections in unexpected places. To be honest, I don't think you're giving enough credit to the evolutionary process that gave us our propensity to admire "games and stories". Dismissing it as "just navel-gazing", or just philosophy, in favour of rigorous science, sounds extremely perilous -- as if killing something fundamental to humanity.

by Radim 9y ago

taneq 9y ago

> Where else would the next major advance come from? Probably from sustained and detailed study of the universe around us and the way it works. That's how we figure out most things. Not that (board) games can't be useful as training but IMO they're a form of navel-gazing. (Games based on high fidelity simulations are definitely useful - look at the AI research using GTA5 as a simulator for self-driving cars, for instance.) > I certainly believe story-tellers and players are absolutely critical if humanity is to pull through. In the sense of us dealing with our own demons and learning how to handle the general awfulness of reality (ie. psychology / philosophy), I completely agree. In the sense of us dealing with outside challenges, though, not so much. > Just curious -- what do you see as the "current existential dangers"? Right now? Our current economic system is close to its limits, with a growing percentage of humans permanently unemployed and that percentage is growing rapidly with new tech. Various ecological systems are collapsing. (eg. pollinators like bees being wiped out by insecticides - have you ever read John Christopher's "Death of Grass"?) Runaway climate change is a real possibility (ocean warming causing methane clathrates to release large amounts of methane into the atmosphere). Higher human populations and population densities increasing the evolution rate of diseases beyond what our immune systems can handle. And all that on a backdrop of a looming AI singularity which even in the best case will make the world weird and confusing beyond the comprehension of baseline humans. There's a lot going on.

Radim 9y ago
Again, agreed for the most part. I just think you're underestimating the power of (board or otherwise) games, how they capture and reflect patterns of reality that are not immediately apparent or not directly useful (or even verbalizable). There's this deep connection between curiosity, idle fun and problem solving. The idea of driving people to "sustained and detailed scientific studies" to tackle "existential threats"... that is just not how the world works. Innovation doesn't happen by committee. It happens by making weird connections in unexpected places. To be honest, I don't think you're giving enough credit to the evolutionary process that gave us our propensity to admire "games and stories". Dismissing it as "just navel-gazing", or just philosophy, in favour of rigorous science, sounds extremely perilous -- as if killing something fundamental to humanity.