4 ms·

Thanks for the tl;dr, I'm left wondering about the state of the software to actually program and deploy code to the device though. From what I saw on HackADay,

Thanks for the tl;dr, I'm left wondering about the state of the software to actually program and deploy code to the device though. From what I saw on HackADay, it appears the two supported IDEs are Windows only (utterly unacceptable, for me). (I know, the gcc port is there, but it's pretty incomplete, from my understanding) This leaves me, a relative newbie to embedded dev, what kind of pitfalls I'd run into if I tried to purchase one of these. It's incredibly frustrating, after years of being in a relative comfort zone with the realm of general desktop/server software, to try to learn more about embedded, and then be uncertain as to what materials you even need.

ganley 16y ago
I have the same newbie issues, but it's $4.30. Worst case, it's totally useless to me, and I'm out the cost of a latte.
- nooneelse 16y ago
  Cheaper than going to a movie and, for the hacker-minded, almost certain to be at least as entertaining as many movies.
- alnayyir 16y ago
  Which is why I'm going to buy it anyway.
blhack 16y ago
|It's incredibly frustrating, after years of being in a relative comfort zone with the realm of general desktop/server software, to try to learn more about embedded, and then be uncertain as to what materials you even need. That is, to me, one of the greatest feelings in the entire world. I remember being a kid and installing a qbasic compiler for the first time. HOLY CRAP it was like learning magic. There was SO much wonder. Now it's just work. I know how to make my computer do pretty much whatever I want. Microcontrollers offer me the opportunity to experience that wonder of learning something new again.
- alnayyir 16y ago
  I don't think you understand what I was describing as frustrating. Ignorance isn't the problem, it's the uncertainty of tools and "what I need to get started". I love solving problems, discovering new things, but the whole embedded dev experience is disempowering because a single mistake in ordering can mean waiting days/weeks to resolve a missing part, not clicking to another website for a missing download. The whole stack lacks the flexibility of software, for obvious reasons, as much as I love it so far.
  - lzell 16y ago
    That's part of what makes it exciting! I was a hardware engineer before switching to software. At that time, we used to say to the software guys "if you guys screw up your design, you recompile; if we screw up, we have to update the schematic, update the cad drawings, order new pcb boards, wait a few weeks, and hope it works next time". The pressure made it fun. Not to mention playing with oscilloscopes and function generators. If it was a minor glitch you could get by by chopping some pins or doing some soldering. Man, that was a good first job out of college. Oh and I'm definitely ordering one of these, even though I haven't used Windows in a few years either. I've got a box with xp somewhere...
    - tkahn6 16y ago
      He's not frustrated with the unforgivability of hardware design. He's frustrated with the overhead involved in getting started learning the ropes (finding the right tools, learning about the conventions involved in identifying the right parts).
CamperBob 16y ago
Thanks for the tl;dr, I'm left wondering about the state of the software to actually program and deploy code to the device though. From what I saw on HackADay, it appears the two supported IDEs are Windows only (utterly unacceptable, for me). (I know, the gcc port is there, but it's pretty incomplete, from my understanding) Rule #1 of embedded development is you develop with the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had. Get a Windows box, or deal with gcc (and ideally help out the developers if it's still got some shortcomings.)
- alnayyir 16y ago
  >gcc (and ideally help out the developers if it's still got some shortcomings.) GCC has a long and storied development environment. I can't exactly just step in and start spewing code at them. It's not an easy culture to penetrate, nor codebase. >develop with the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had. I'm actually going to call tough shit on that, and respond with, "buy the dev kit/platform that supports more than one flawed platform" Regardless, I'm still going to buy a kit.
  - CamperBob 16y ago
    I'm actually going to call tough shit on that, and respond with, "buy the dev kit/platform that supports more than one flawed platform" A valid strategy as long as you aren't building a million of something.
    - alnayyir 16y ago
      I'm a programmer messing around with dev kits. I think building a million of something is a Maserati Problem (TM), at this point.
aswanson 16y ago
I feel you on the windows dev environment rejection. Ive completely written off PIC on that basis. One of the shittiest single os development environments ever.
- nitrogen 16y ago
  You can use Piklab for Linux. I have developed a complete firmware for a USB device using Piklab.
X-Istence 16y ago
GCC port works fairly well, yes it takes some finagling to get working correctly, but any self described hacker should be able to do it in a couple of hours. Not only that, but clang has upcoming MSP430 support, with many supporters already actively attempting to get it functioning correctly in an attempt to replace GCC.
nitrogen 16y ago
You can buy a USB Bitwhacker from SparkFun, use Piklab for Linux to develop for it (in assembly), and use a command-line tool to flash it over USB (I can't remember the name of the tool). Or, you can buy a PICkit, and program the PIC directly without needing a bootloader.

ganley 16y ago

I have the same newbie issues, but it's $4.30. Worst case, it's totally useless to me, and I'm out the cost of a latte.

nooneelse 16y ago
Cheaper than going to a movie and, for the hacker-minded, almost certain to be at least as entertaining as many movies.
alnayyir 16y ago
Which is why I'm going to buy it anyway.

blhack 16y ago

|It's incredibly frustrating, after years of being in a relative comfort zone with the realm of general desktop/server software, to try to learn more about embedded, and then be uncertain as to what materials you even need. That is, to me, one of the greatest feelings in the entire world. I remember being a kid and installing a qbasic compiler for the first time. HOLY CRAP it was like learning magic. There was SO much wonder. Now it's just work. I know how to make my computer do pretty much whatever I want. Microcontrollers offer me the opportunity to experience that wonder of learning something new again.

alnayyir 16y ago
I don't think you understand what I was describing as frustrating. Ignorance isn't the problem, it's the uncertainty of tools and "what I need to get started". I love solving problems, discovering new things, but the whole embedded dev experience is disempowering because a single mistake in ordering can mean waiting days/weeks to resolve a missing part, not clicking to another website for a missing download. The whole stack lacks the flexibility of software, for obvious reasons, as much as I love it so far.
- lzell 16y ago
  That's part of what makes it exciting! I was a hardware engineer before switching to software. At that time, we used to say to the software guys "if you guys screw up your design, you recompile; if we screw up, we have to update the schematic, update the cad drawings, order new pcb boards, wait a few weeks, and hope it works next time". The pressure made it fun. Not to mention playing with oscilloscopes and function generators. If it was a minor glitch you could get by by chopping some pins or doing some soldering. Man, that was a good first job out of college. Oh and I'm definitely ordering one of these, even though I haven't used Windows in a few years either. I've got a box with xp somewhere...
  - tkahn6 16y ago
    He's not frustrated with the unforgivability of hardware design. He's frustrated with the overhead involved in getting started learning the ropes (finding the right tools, learning about the conventions involved in identifying the right parts).

CamperBob 16y ago

Thanks for the tl;dr, I'm left wondering about the state of the software to actually program and deploy code to the device though. From what I saw on HackADay, it appears the two supported IDEs are Windows only (utterly unacceptable, for me). (I know, the gcc port is there, but it's pretty incomplete, from my understanding) Rule #1 of embedded development is you develop with the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had. Get a Windows box, or deal with gcc (and ideally help out the developers if it's still got some shortcomings.)

alnayyir 16y ago
>gcc (and ideally help out the developers if it's still got some shortcomings.) GCC has a long and storied development environment. I can't exactly just step in and start spewing code at them. It's not an easy culture to penetrate, nor codebase. >develop with the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had. I'm actually going to call tough shit on that, and respond with, "buy the dev kit/platform that supports more than one flawed platform" Regardless, I'm still going to buy a kit.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  I'm actually going to call tough shit on that, and respond with, "buy the dev kit/platform that supports more than one flawed platform" A valid strategy as long as you aren't building a million of something.
  - alnayyir 16y ago
    I'm a programmer messing around with dev kits. I think building a million of something is a Maserati Problem (TM), at this point.

aswanson 16y ago

I feel you on the windows dev environment rejection. Ive completely written off PIC on that basis. One of the shittiest single os development environments ever.

nitrogen 16y ago
You can use Piklab for Linux. I have developed a complete firmware for a USB device using Piklab.

X-Istence 16y ago

GCC port works fairly well, yes it takes some finagling to get working correctly, but any self described hacker should be able to do it in a couple of hours. Not only that, but clang has upcoming MSP430 support, with many supporters already actively attempting to get it functioning correctly in an attempt to replace GCC.

nitrogen 16y ago

You can buy a USB Bitwhacker from SparkFun, use Piklab for Linux to develop for it (in assembly), and use a command-line tool to flash it over USB (I can't remember the name of the tool). Or, you can buy a PICkit, and program the PIC directly without needing a bootloader.