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> ..We now have the luxary to afford more then we actually need to survive so we strive to have more and more. I've come to the conclusion that this is primary

> ..We now have the luxary to afford more then we actually need to survive so we strive to have more and more. I've come to the conclusion that this is primary issue with a establishing a universal income. Providing everyone with a means to buy essentials for life would insist that no one overbuys -- which would have the effect of inflating market prices and eliminate any benefits imagined from having such an income.

thesagan 9y ago
I have concerns as well. My own suspicion is that UBI would give policymakers a mighty political carrot-and-stick; debating the morality of certain spending habits, etc., and slowly de-universalizing UBI into something with strings attached. I prefer the idea of creating our own value for trade, if we could iron out some of the kinks in the system we have already.
- sgit 9y ago
  From the top post of reddit.com/r/latestagecapitalism - https://i.imgur.com/p6DSnv6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/p6DSnv6.jpg I think we will transition over to new more sustainable models. Capitalism just causes too much damage and unintended consequences when it uses the speed and scale the tech sector provides. Just look at the number of followers of that subreddit and the speed at which it is growing.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    But I got rich starting a high-frequency alt-coin hedge fund because I created value in the sense that I found a way to enrich myself. Now I'm going to pay these politicians comparatively small amounts (but far above what you could afford to stop me) to protect my interests.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      > But I got rich starting a high-frequency alt-coin hedge fund because I created value in the sense that I found a way to enrich myself. Here's the crux of the problem. You created value in terms of market economy. That doesn't mean you created any value in terms of human society, or how people generally understand this world. Hell, in your particular example it's quite easy to argue that alt-coins (if proof-of-work-based) generate lots of negative value (by wasting ungodly amounts of energy), and whether or not HFT is helpful to the stability of the economy is debatable.
      - saurik 9y ago
        You seem to be responding seriously to satire...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - thesagan 9y ago
    You bet, the system as it is needs real reform! My previous post uses the word "kinks" and I don't mean to minimize the problem we have today. Old capitalist thinking seems out of date, and this does feel like late-stage.
mrep 9y ago
This is so out of base with common economics I don't even know where to begin. Thus, I suggest you read a microeconomic textbook to get some more context on how government wide economic policies (like UBI) will have on individuals.
- ci5er 9y ago
  Would it be out of line to ask you to make a specific critique? I may be taking the parent comment out of context myself (as sparse as it is), but I worry about nation-states manufacturing dependency.
- joejerryronnie 9y ago
  I'm not up to speed with the latest highfalutin micro economic theories but it seems to me that we already have a universal basic income of $0.00 and a basic cost of goods. Please explain how raising the UBI to, let's say $30K, won't just raise the basic cost of goods by the same percentage, establishing a new equilibrium that is essentially the same as we have now.
  - pixl97 9y ago
    Do food stamps raise the cost of food?
    - joejerryronnie 9y ago
      Does everybody, regardless of need, receive the same amount of foodstamps? If not, we're not comparing apples to apples.
      - saurik 9y ago
        That's not how any Universal Basic Income plan I have ever seen works... they are all based on what is essentially a negative income tax bracket.
        deleted 9y ago

thesagan 9y ago

I have concerns as well. My own suspicion is that UBI would give policymakers a mighty political carrot-and-stick; debating the morality of certain spending habits, etc., and slowly de-universalizing UBI into something with strings attached. I prefer the idea of creating our own value for trade, if we could iron out some of the kinks in the system we have already.

sgit 9y ago
From the top post of reddit.com/r/latestagecapitalism - https://i.imgur.com/p6DSnv6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/p6DSnv6.jpg I think we will transition over to new more sustainable models. Capitalism just causes too much damage and unintended consequences when it uses the speed and scale the tech sector provides. Just look at the number of followers of that subreddit and the speed at which it is growing.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  But I got rich starting a high-frequency alt-coin hedge fund because I created value in the sense that I found a way to enrich myself. Now I'm going to pay these politicians comparatively small amounts (but far above what you could afford to stop me) to protect my interests.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > But I got rich starting a high-frequency alt-coin hedge fund because I created value in the sense that I found a way to enrich myself. Here's the crux of the problem. You created value in terms of market economy. That doesn't mean you created any value in terms of human society, or how people generally understand this world. Hell, in your particular example it's quite easy to argue that alt-coins (if proof-of-work-based) generate lots of negative value (by wasting ungodly amounts of energy), and whether or not HFT is helpful to the stability of the economy is debatable.
    - saurik 9y ago
      You seem to be responding seriously to satire...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- thesagan 9y ago
  You bet, the system as it is needs real reform! My previous post uses the word "kinks" and I don't mean to minimize the problem we have today. Old capitalist thinking seems out of date, and this does feel like late-stage.

mrep 9y ago

This is so out of base with common economics I don't even know where to begin. Thus, I suggest you read a microeconomic textbook to get some more context on how government wide economic policies (like UBI) will have on individuals.

ci5er 9y ago
Would it be out of line to ask you to make a specific critique? I may be taking the parent comment out of context myself (as sparse as it is), but I worry about nation-states manufacturing dependency.
joejerryronnie 9y ago
I'm not up to speed with the latest highfalutin micro economic theories but it seems to me that we already have a universal basic income of $0.00 and a basic cost of goods. Please explain how raising the UBI to, let's say $30K, won't just raise the basic cost of goods by the same percentage, establishing a new equilibrium that is essentially the same as we have now.
- pixl97 9y ago
  Do food stamps raise the cost of food?
  - joejerryronnie 9y ago
    Does everybody, regardless of need, receive the same amount of foodstamps? If not, we're not comparing apples to apples.
    - saurik 9y ago
      That's not how any Universal Basic Income plan I have ever seen works... they are all based on what is essentially a negative income tax bracket.
      - deleted 9y ago