5 ms·

Pepe Is Banned from the Apple App Store

23 points by kushti 9y ago

efskap 9y ago
First they came for our Pepes, but I did not speak out, for I was not a frogposter.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
eveningcoffee 9y ago
App store model is an existential threat to the free society many imagine we are granterd to have. Maybe you do not find this take down important or even can support it but consider the following. You are developing a p2p messenger/social media platform. Your users can not install it directly, only through an third party. This third party can always interfere with your actions because of 1) their own motives (they want to develop similar application that would remain under their full control), 2) their industry partners motives or just because of industry status quo, 3) interest of government..
- astrodust 9y ago
  With freedom comes uncertainty and trust becomes a lot harder to obtain. If anyone can publish anything without restriction you have a free marketplace, but it's also one vulnerable to scammers and malicious actors. If you have one where nobody can publish anything it's useless. There's a middle ground in there where it's useful but not easily compromised, though the degree of permissiveness is what leads to arguments about Apple vs. Google's interpretation of permissive. If you don't like people having control over your phone, write your own OS for it. All the tools are out there. The ultimate freedom is having full control over your own software, though it's not without its own risks...
  - eveningcoffee 9y ago
    Your point of view is completely right if you agree that a government or a corporation should be allowed to censor the programs you can run. App store in iOS creates a centralized distribution system that makes censoring straightforward. Because this kind of systems are very lucrative then there is huge pressure from other platform owners to force all their users to use their app store (only) too. Only thing that holds them back right now is the inertia and pressure from the existing users but the trend has been clearly sketched out though their actions.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      Apple can't censor the programs you run on iOS. There is jailbreaking, and Apple's Testflight even allows developers to distribute up to 10,000 copies of your app with minimal review. One of the reasons iOS is so popular is the inherent safety in Apple's sandboxing and app review. If you don't care about that Android has app stores that are far less restrictive and it's easier to side load apps on. That's real consumer choice, you don't expect Nordstroms to allow all of Walmart's clothes vendors to dump their crap on it's shelves. As far as our phones and PCs are concerned, we live in a wonderfully free world. You can distribute software to anyone on a web page, or native apps to billions of people by following a few app store rules. If you don't like either of those options, you can actually build your own smart phones to offer consumers what you think is a better choice, there are multiple operating systems that are entirely open source. The only pressure on platform owners is customer expectations. They don't like viruses, malware, etc. Some don't like their kids downloading apps that might lead them in ways they don't like. Giving customers what they want isn't censorship at all.
      - astrodust 9y ago
        It's like Disney World: Full of restrictions but with the guarantee of safety. Other people would rather head into backwater Thailand where it's run by gangs and pirates, which is fine, but it's not for everyone.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      You make it sound like corporate censorship is without consequences, but it isn't. You can push back against it, you can pick a different platform in protest. Governmental censorship is a problem because you can't easily switch governments, plus there's things like charters and constitutions that are put in place to prevent it. Corporations have not adopted this sort of thing, at least not yet. The problem with the App Store is it's similar to a retail chain. Is it "censorship" that Wal-Mart won't carry your product? Is it "censorship" that McDonald's doesn't sell Whoppers? The same people that argue for freedom in app stores would be railing against the government if there was some mandate that Wal-Mart allow anyone to sell any product.
- cooper12 9y ago
  There's nothing inherently wrong with an app store as long as you can choose alternate stores (like F-Droid) or are able to sideload. (as OSX allows) The issue occurs when you're locked in to Apple's store so you're at their mercy. However, there's not much you can do other than to use software that grants you those rights. Apple is free to lock down their software as much as they want since it's theirs unfortunately.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Apple is selling the security and privacy of the walled garden. It's customers benefit from that. If you don't like it you can always make a web app.
  - eveningcoffee 9y ago
    And how exactly you are going to access low level API through the web app if you want to build an application that requires it? More over as Apple controls all the browsers on iOS then what exactly stops them to block your web app?
    - valuearb 9y ago
      Apple doesn't control all the browsers on iOS or block any web apps. If you need a low level API, well thats when you need to follow the App Store rules. You may not like that, but the counter argument is the $21B paid to iOS developers over the last 12 months. If you can get a product into Costco or Walmart you can make huge amounts of money. But you will need to follow their rules, and some are very restrictive. If you don't like that you can sell to less restrictive stores or setup your own. It's no different with iOS and the Web.
      - eveningcoffee 9y ago
        >Apple doesn't control all the browsers on iOS or block any web apps. There is only single browser engine on iOS. What you call browsers are only skins. Apple can do what ever they please. For example provide an ad blocker that is effective for all browsers. So they can block an web app if they want to or are demanded to do. >If you need a low level API, well thats when you need to follow the App Store rules. Which was effectively point I was making. More over, you really need a legal entity to distribute anything on iOS and these rules are always subject to change whenever Apple finds in convenient for them. >If you can get a product into Costco or Walmart you can make huge amounts of money. Maybe you did not notice but I was not talking about making money. I said that it is not possible to develop an app for iOS without risk of censoring.
ignacius 9y ago
Good. Eat your own forced meme somewhere else. I pray that Skynet eradicates this flotsam of anthropomorphic symbology from the time stream when the machines ascend to power.
- anonbanker 9y ago
  It's a good thing you'll never be in a position of power anywhere. You're clearly unsuited for such a role.

23 points by kushti 9y ago

efskap 9y ago

First they came for our Pepes, but I did not speak out, for I was not a frogposter.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

eveningcoffee 9y ago

App store model is an existential threat to the free society many imagine we are granterd to have. Maybe you do not find this take down important or even can support it but consider the following. You are developing a p2p messenger/social media platform. Your users can not install it directly, only through an third party. This third party can always interfere with your actions because of 1) their own motives (they want to develop similar application that would remain under their full control), 2) their industry partners motives or just because of industry status quo, 3) interest of government..

astrodust 9y ago
With freedom comes uncertainty and trust becomes a lot harder to obtain. If anyone can publish anything without restriction you have a free marketplace, but it's also one vulnerable to scammers and malicious actors. If you have one where nobody can publish anything it's useless. There's a middle ground in there where it's useful but not easily compromised, though the degree of permissiveness is what leads to arguments about Apple vs. Google's interpretation of permissive. If you don't like people having control over your phone, write your own OS for it. All the tools are out there. The ultimate freedom is having full control over your own software, though it's not without its own risks...
- eveningcoffee 9y ago
  Your point of view is completely right if you agree that a government or a corporation should be allowed to censor the programs you can run. App store in iOS creates a centralized distribution system that makes censoring straightforward. Because this kind of systems are very lucrative then there is huge pressure from other platform owners to force all their users to use their app store (only) too. Only thing that holds them back right now is the inertia and pressure from the existing users but the trend has been clearly sketched out though their actions.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Apple can't censor the programs you run on iOS. There is jailbreaking, and Apple's Testflight even allows developers to distribute up to 10,000 copies of your app with minimal review. One of the reasons iOS is so popular is the inherent safety in Apple's sandboxing and app review. If you don't care about that Android has app stores that are far less restrictive and it's easier to side load apps on. That's real consumer choice, you don't expect Nordstroms to allow all of Walmart's clothes vendors to dump their crap on it's shelves. As far as our phones and PCs are concerned, we live in a wonderfully free world. You can distribute software to anyone on a web page, or native apps to billions of people by following a few app store rules. If you don't like either of those options, you can actually build your own smart phones to offer consumers what you think is a better choice, there are multiple operating systems that are entirely open source. The only pressure on platform owners is customer expectations. They don't like viruses, malware, etc. Some don't like their kids downloading apps that might lead them in ways they don't like. Giving customers what they want isn't censorship at all.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      It's like Disney World: Full of restrictions but with the guarantee of safety. Other people would rather head into backwater Thailand where it's run by gangs and pirates, which is fine, but it's not for everyone.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    You make it sound like corporate censorship is without consequences, but it isn't. You can push back against it, you can pick a different platform in protest. Governmental censorship is a problem because you can't easily switch governments, plus there's things like charters and constitutions that are put in place to prevent it. Corporations have not adopted this sort of thing, at least not yet. The problem with the App Store is it's similar to a retail chain. Is it "censorship" that Wal-Mart won't carry your product? Is it "censorship" that McDonald's doesn't sell Whoppers? The same people that argue for freedom in app stores would be railing against the government if there was some mandate that Wal-Mart allow anyone to sell any product.
cooper12 9y ago
There's nothing inherently wrong with an app store as long as you can choose alternate stores (like F-Droid) or are able to sideload. (as OSX allows) The issue occurs when you're locked in to Apple's store so you're at their mercy. However, there's not much you can do other than to use software that grants you those rights. Apple is free to lock down their software as much as they want since it's theirs unfortunately.
valuearb 9y ago
Apple is selling the security and privacy of the walled garden. It's customers benefit from that. If you don't like it you can always make a web app.
- eveningcoffee 9y ago
  And how exactly you are going to access low level API through the web app if you want to build an application that requires it? More over as Apple controls all the browsers on iOS then what exactly stops them to block your web app?
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Apple doesn't control all the browsers on iOS or block any web apps. If you need a low level API, well thats when you need to follow the App Store rules. You may not like that, but the counter argument is the $21B paid to iOS developers over the last 12 months. If you can get a product into Costco or Walmart you can make huge amounts of money. But you will need to follow their rules, and some are very restrictive. If you don't like that you can sell to less restrictive stores or setup your own. It's no different with iOS and the Web.
    - eveningcoffee 9y ago
      >Apple doesn't control all the browsers on iOS or block any web apps. There is only single browser engine on iOS. What you call browsers are only skins. Apple can do what ever they please. For example provide an ad blocker that is effective for all browsers. So they can block an web app if they want to or are demanded to do. >If you need a low level API, well thats when you need to follow the App Store rules. Which was effectively point I was making. More over, you really need a legal entity to distribute anything on iOS and these rules are always subject to change whenever Apple finds in convenient for them. >If you can get a product into Costco or Walmart you can make huge amounts of money. Maybe you did not notice but I was not talking about making money. I said that it is not possible to develop an app for iOS without risk of censoring.

ignacius 9y ago

Good. Eat your own forced meme somewhere else. I pray that Skynet eradicates this flotsam of anthropomorphic symbology from the time stream when the machines ascend to power.

anonbanker 9y ago
It's a good thing you'll never be in a position of power anywhere. You're clearly unsuited for such a role.