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I don't understand why the author wanted Microsoft to use HTML / CSS / SVG. If Microsoft had actually done that, and wanted or needed anything custom or unique,

I don't understand why the author wanted Microsoft to use HTML / CSS / SVG. If Microsoft had actually done that, and wanted or needed anything custom or unique, they would just be accused of "embracing and extending" the technology, as they had been previously. It's seems like the XAML they went with is actually the better option -- it's close enough to other markup languages that any developer can pick it up with minimal effort, but not exactly the same so they can make any changes they want without hurting anyone else's compatibility or the larger ecosystem. And (totally subjectively) XAML is actually nicer for developers and users than HTML+CSS+JS in some areas, if your willing to invest just a tiny amount of time to learn it. -- Plus, Microsoft's UWP also lets you use a web browser too, if you prefer. If you feel your markup is better in HTML+CSS+SVG, Microsoft already supports that as well - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/create-a-hello-world-app-js-uwp https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/cre...

dev360 9y ago
> they would just be accused of "embracing and extending" the technology Well, that didn't happen with TypeScript. I think the perception of Microsoft has changed a lot since Nadella took over because they have really worked really hard to avoid the IBM trap.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  Yes now they're known for monitoring your computer usage and updating it while you're not looking.
  - lucideer 9y ago
    By a certain subset of people. I think the perception of Microsoft in the tech community has become oddly polarised. On one hand you have developers and power-users who use Windows and care about privacy. And a probably much tinier number who don't use Windows but care enough about other people's privacy. On the other hand you have all the web/JS/FOSS tech folk on Linux and macOS - these OSes have pretty tiny usage stats over all but I'd guess relatively high within that community - who don't care so much about Windows and as such just see the positive results of their FOSS efforts. I wonder who's winning...
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Yes, but apparently they are the only bad ones, because people are perfectly fine when Apple or Google do it.
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  WPF was released in 2006 though. The Microsoft of 2006 definitely would've been pilloried for EEE if WPF had been built on web technologies. (Not that the Microsoft of 2006 ever would've done that)
anth1988 9y ago
> if your willing to invest just a tiny amount of time to learn it. We're talking about JS users. Is there a group less likely to move outside of their comfort zone?
- myrryr 9y ago
  I've never met a group more willing to learn entirely new frameworks or dump their current way of building stuff at the drop of a hat. Js users are notorious at changing How they do things. They don't have a comfort zone as far as I can tell.
  - LeoNatan25 9y ago
    Not exactly. They are willing to learn new frameworks only within the technology they know, namely JS.
    - lopatin 9y ago
      Maybe "they" are just human after all. One day the cave dwellers shall be enlightened by the teachings of <insert almost any other language here>, but first, they must open their minds to the light beyond their primitive ways.
      - LeoNatan25 9y ago
        Of course, but "they" are notoriously known for being unable or refusing to see the light, vocally reveling in the primitive mud.
        allover 9y ago
        No, they're only 'notorious' in this way via lazy external narrative.
- allover 9y ago
  Do you have any evidence for that? I've met several programming curmudgeons in my time, none of them were JS devs. Oddly they were people like yourself that like to throw around lazy generalizations.
guscost 9y ago
In my experience XAML can be a massive footgun if you don't know what you're doing. Sure, world-class geniuses are using it to build (still) the best IDE on the planet, but on your everyday development team it can backfire. One of React's biggest selling points is that it has a sort of "pit of success" instead. Partly from the mandatory one-way binding, and partly because of the choice to allow integrating any kind of UI "thing" into the component model.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
You can't learn WPF and XAML in a tiny amount of time, it is substantial.

dev360 9y ago

> they would just be accused of "embracing and extending" the technology Well, that didn't happen with TypeScript. I think the perception of Microsoft has changed a lot since Nadella took over because they have really worked really hard to avoid the IBM trap.

sotojuan 9y ago
Yes now they're known for monitoring your computer usage and updating it while you're not looking.
- lucideer 9y ago
  By a certain subset of people. I think the perception of Microsoft in the tech community has become oddly polarised. On one hand you have developers and power-users who use Windows and care about privacy. And a probably much tinier number who don't use Windows but care enough about other people's privacy. On the other hand you have all the web/JS/FOSS tech folk on Linux and macOS - these OSes have pretty tiny usage stats over all but I'd guess relatively high within that community - who don't care so much about Windows and as such just see the positive results of their FOSS efforts. I wonder who's winning...
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Yes, but apparently they are the only bad ones, because people are perfectly fine when Apple or Google do it.
Analemma_ 9y ago
WPF was released in 2006 though. The Microsoft of 2006 definitely would've been pilloried for EEE if WPF had been built on web technologies. (Not that the Microsoft of 2006 ever would've done that)

anth1988 9y ago

> if your willing to invest just a tiny amount of time to learn it. We're talking about JS users. Is there a group less likely to move outside of their comfort zone?

myrryr 9y ago
I've never met a group more willing to learn entirely new frameworks or dump their current way of building stuff at the drop of a hat. Js users are notorious at changing How they do things. They don't have a comfort zone as far as I can tell.
- LeoNatan25 9y ago
  Not exactly. They are willing to learn new frameworks only within the technology they know, namely JS.
  - lopatin 9y ago
    Maybe "they" are just human after all. One day the cave dwellers shall be enlightened by the teachings of <insert almost any other language here>, but first, they must open their minds to the light beyond their primitive ways.
    - LeoNatan25 9y ago
      Of course, but "they" are notoriously known for being unable or refusing to see the light, vocally reveling in the primitive mud.
      - allover 9y ago
        No, they're only 'notorious' in this way via lazy external narrative.
allover 9y ago
Do you have any evidence for that? I've met several programming curmudgeons in my time, none of them were JS devs. Oddly they were people like yourself that like to throw around lazy generalizations.

guscost 9y ago

In my experience XAML can be a massive footgun if you don't know what you're doing. Sure, world-class geniuses are using it to build (still) the best IDE on the planet, but on your everyday development team it can backfire. One of React's biggest selling points is that it has a sort of "pit of success" instead. Partly from the mandatory one-way binding, and partly because of the choice to allow integrating any kind of UI "thing" into the component model.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

You can't learn WPF and XAML in a tiny amount of time, it is substantial.