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I don't think I would say that consumer ignorance counts as consumers speaking via the market. Computer security is complicated stuff and no one really explains
by pwthornton 9y ago
I don't think I would say that consumer ignorance counts as consumers speaking via the market. Computer security is complicated stuff and no one really explains to users what the vulnerabilities are and how to mitigate them.
The fact that we don't have chip and pin credit cards in the U.S. is hardly evidence that consumers don't want them or that they somehow prefer a system that makes it much easier for them to be defrauded. It's simply that the few credit card companies we have don't want to spend the money to provide chip and pin (or another secure payment system).
- NikolaeVarius 9y agoThat's untrue. The problem is that because once you get a chip and pin machine customers are obligated to use it. Businesses were wary that this would scare customers away due to "difficulty" so slowed down adoption.
- pwthornton 9y agoOther parts of the world have been using chip and pin systems for a long time. Clearly, customers understand it. Americans know how to use similar technology from ATM cards (and many make purchases this way). I have no doubt that businesses don't want to change and invest in new technology, but I have never met an individual credit card user who has professed love for our current credit card system.
- ars 9y agoChip is not especially hard to use, but it's unquestionably a worse and slower interface. With a swipe you can do it while they are still scanning your items, and you can swipe and immediately put it back in your pocket. With a chip you have to wait till they are done, and you have to wait about 5 to 10 seconds for it to do its thing - then sign it, while the card is still in there (so you can't really keep holding your wallet since you'll need two hands, one to hold the machine, the other for the pen). Then finally it lets you remove the card. And you have to take out your wallet again and put it back. Swipe uses exactly zero time, since you do it while you are anyway waiting. Chip takes about 30 seconds. It adds up. It's also more annoying since you can't just put the card right back in your wallet.
- drdaeman 9y agoI'm curious. Is this common in the US for terminals to operate that way? In Russia, POS terminals are connected to cash registers, and only initialize after the items are registered - I think I never ever saw them active prior to the final cost display. Only then you can swipe (or insert) the card. Probably that's just a local specifics, so I'm interested in learning how this works in other countries.
- ars 9y agoThe larger the store the more likely you can swipe right away. In smaller places typically you have to wait for a total.
- rbritton 9y agoIt varies. I've been to locations where you can swipe as soon as the first item is scanned and others where it won't accept it until the end. The one certainty is there will be no consistency in the payment flow between more than a few businesses.
- Terretta 9y agoThe interface you’re describing is chip and signature. Chip and Pin isn’t the same UX/flow as Chip and Sig. We (US) currently chose the worst of both worlds.
- ars 9y agoWhat's the Chip and Pin interface? How does it vary from Chip and Signature?
- drdaeman 9y agoChip: "something you have" factor. The card has a tamper-resistant chip, that holds cryptographic keys and does the signing. Pin: "something you know" factor. Card owner enters a PIN code on the POS terminal's keypad. The card only allows the transaction after the correct PIN entry, and blocks in case of multiple errors. No signatures required in this scheme. Except for the cryptographic ones, of course. It works like this: you insert the card, type in[1] your PIN code that is supposed to be secret and then the purchase is authorized. Requirement to enter the PIN lessens the fraud possibility in case of lost or stolen cards, and requirement to have the chip combats skimmers (if terminal is capable and card has a chip, swiping the magstripe instead of using the chip should result in rejection). ______ [1] If prompted. Depending on the bank, infrequent low-cost low-risk purchases may not require a PIN code. Card keeps a list of recent purchases in the EEPROM and is probably capable of starting to ask the PIN code after number of purchases is over some threshold (but I'm not exactly sure how they're programmed).
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- gagege 9y agoHuh? I'm confused, I live in the midwest and chip and pin is everywhere. Do stores not use it in other places?
- upvotinglurker 9y agoWhere I live (also US midwest, rural area), about 2/3 of locations where I regularly shop have the "chip" part implemented, zero have the "pin" part. (Chip and pin = having to type a pin each time you use the card in the chip reader.)
- pwthornton 9y agoIt's all chip and signature here.
- gagege 9y agoApparently not where I live, in South Dakota. The machines ask for my pin every time. Edit: I just figured out why. My bank is apparently providing the chip and pin functionality.
- drewg123 9y agoWhat bank do you use? I've tried several times to get any of my cards switch from signature to pin with nothing but confusion from my banks. "But a pin is only for debit cards" is the typical response.
- ewheeler 9y agoIts not just desire to avoid spending the money to provide chip+pin systems Most Americans have many credit cards, unlike consumers in Europe, for example, where chip+pin is the norm. US banks and credit card companies worried that Americans wouldn't be able to remember 6 different PINs for 6 different cards. So, they prefer eating the overhead of fraudulent charges rather than potentially reducing the number of credit cards (and profit) each consumer uses