3 ms·

Can you explain how, exactly? Spyware would need to call out to system APIs to do anything useful, and that's not something that can be done inside an enclave.

Can you explain how, exactly? Spyware would need to call out to system APIs to do anything useful, and that's not something that can be done inside an enclave. Sure, it'd let you be a bit sloppier with randomware, not needing public key crypto to make it all work. Not really a huge deal.

SXX 9y ago
Yes I can. In past there was many cases when normal software and even distributed drivers contained different kind of malware. After some point someone find it and it's become detectable, there was scandal and way to remove it. Also there was very serious risk that if some company put backdoor into their software it's will be found and company will be sued at least. If something like SGX become publicly available then a lot of proprietary software and content manufacturers going to use it for DRM purposes. So efficiently it's will be everywhere. Now imagine that every company can put sleeping backdoor in their software that can't be found by reverse engineering. Then they can activate it on demand for purposes of industrial espionage. Or they can simply ship own version of backdoor to ever customer and then pretend it's was some "bug" when someone detected it's activity.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  I think you might not understand SGX's capability. It's just a compute kernel. So if they're taking data from your system, that's still very visible. And if they are sending data, that's also visible. So, sure, it's handy to hide logic. So the WannaCry thing, you'd be able to see it does DNS queries, but not how it determined a certain outcome based on the inputs. But you can't hide, for instance, a keylogger.
  - SXX 9y ago
    I perfectly understand what you pointing to, but problem of black box running in every piece of software is massive. Anyone could use it to implement remote backdoor in software and then pretend it's just a DRM that talking with licensing server. Yeah it's could be detected when it's start to be active, but it's doesn't have to. It's could be idle on PC for years undetected just waiting for remote command, trigger or special payload just for you. PS: Also fact that secure enclave itself can't access system API mean nothing because half of software already have interpreters in it as well as frameworks for every possible activity bad or good.
    - johncolanduoni 9y ago
      It's not a black box. SGX code is unencrypted even at runtime, and as long as its running that code has to remain present and unencrypted. You can detect it at any time, not just when it starts up.
      - SXX 9y ago
        A bit too late response, but anyway. There is already apps that use SGX to safely work with DRM or private keys. If there is a way keep keys secret what would stop anyone from implementing interpreters that will keep code secret?

SXX 9y ago

Yes I can. In past there was many cases when normal software and even distributed drivers contained different kind of malware. After some point someone find it and it's become detectable, there was scandal and way to remove it. Also there was very serious risk that if some company put backdoor into their software it's will be found and company will be sued at least. If something like SGX become publicly available then a lot of proprietary software and content manufacturers going to use it for DRM purposes. So efficiently it's will be everywhere. Now imagine that every company can put sleeping backdoor in their software that can't be found by reverse engineering. Then they can activate it on demand for purposes of industrial espionage. Or they can simply ship own version of backdoor to ever customer and then pretend it's was some "bug" when someone detected it's activity.

MichaelGG 9y ago
I think you might not understand SGX's capability. It's just a compute kernel. So if they're taking data from your system, that's still very visible. And if they are sending data, that's also visible. So, sure, it's handy to hide logic. So the WannaCry thing, you'd be able to see it does DNS queries, but not how it determined a certain outcome based on the inputs. But you can't hide, for instance, a keylogger.
- SXX 9y ago
  I perfectly understand what you pointing to, but problem of black box running in every piece of software is massive. Anyone could use it to implement remote backdoor in software and then pretend it's just a DRM that talking with licensing server. Yeah it's could be detected when it's start to be active, but it's doesn't have to. It's could be idle on PC for years undetected just waiting for remote command, trigger or special payload just for you. PS: Also fact that secure enclave itself can't access system API mean nothing because half of software already have interpreters in it as well as frameworks for every possible activity bad or good.
  - johncolanduoni 9y ago
    It's not a black box. SGX code is unencrypted even at runtime, and as long as its running that code has to remain present and unencrypted. You can detect it at any time, not just when it starts up.
    - SXX 9y ago
      A bit too late response, but anyway. There is already apps that use SGX to safely work with DRM or private keys. If there is a way keep keys secret what would stop anyone from implementing interpreters that will keep code secret?